Two of the last three governors of New York were lieutenant governors first. And now, there is growing speculation that Lieutenant Governor Antonio Delgado will try to add to that list by challenging Governor Kathy Hochul next year. The two are undergoing a messy public split after Delgado announced he would not seek re-election and Hochul’s office responded that Delgado had been neglecting duties and would have been replaced anyway. So what should a governor look for in a lieutenant governor?
Robert Duffy is one of the few to know. He preceded Hochul under then-Governor Andrew Cuomo and now leads the Greater Rochester Chamber of Commerce.
Duffy spoke with WAMC's Ian Pickus on Thursday.
What was your reaction when you heard about the Delgado-Hochul split?
Well, it was disappointing to hear that. First of all, I think any time there's a disagreement between a governor and lieutenant governor, it is best to be dealt with privately, behind closed doors, as opposed to publicly. And I always had a method with former Governor Cuomo, if we ever disagreed, which was rarely, we would have a discussion. And I always had an open door to speak with him, but it would never have occurred to me ever to go out publicly and get in front of him, or to take him on publicly or disagree with him publicly, because I've always said this: the governor is the principal. The lieutenant governor, the only statutory authority you have is pretty much nothing. You are there to serve the governor in case something happens to he or she, and any influence or power that you have is drawn from your relationship with the governor. So when that relationship is good, as I always enjoyed with former Governor Cuomo, the calendar was filled, plenty of things to do and involved with a lot of policy issues. If the relationship is not good, which I think you're seeing now, you see these things happen where all of a sudden the lieutenant governor really will have no role, because the governor is the principal. She's the one that that makes the decisions. She's the one whose points, her comments, are really meant to speak for the entire administration. And I always felt as lieutenant governor, I didn't speak for the administration unless it went through the governor and the governor OKed it, because, again, he was the governor. I knew and understood my role. And apparently something has gone off the tracks as of late.
The lieutenant governor, as you say, has few official duties, presiding over the Senate and that kind of thing. But do you think that the lieutenant governor should go into an administration like Delgado did and sort of request a portfolio of things so that they have something important to focus on?
I think absolutely that would be correct. I had a portfolio when I came in with Governor Cuomo. I was very heavily involved with his process leading to marriage equality. I was given the position of being in charge of the establishment of the regional councils, which took up quite a bit of time for two, almost three years. So attending almost every meeting across the state, monthly, and a number of other things. And the relationship was always good. And I'll say this, Ian. You know, the lieutenant governor's position is not often glorious. I was in a position with my two previous careers to be a decision maker and make decisions. The lieutenant governor does not make decisions unless he or she gets permission from the governor, because the governor is the executive for the state. But asking for a portfolio and being involved, yes, and again, Governor Hochul, when she was lieutenant governor, she also was in charge of the regional councils. She traveled the state, as I did, but that is a simple thing, and I would sense that probably happened. I always sensed the relationship between Governor Hochul and the lieutenant governor was always pretty strong, until just some rumblings within the last year.
Now we know Delgado is not going to seek re-election. He is now facing some calls to resign, given that he cannot work with Governor Hochul it seems. Do you think you should just step down now and let her get a different person in the role?
To be honest with you, if you go back in history, when Lieutenant Governor Al DelBello was serving then Governor Mario Cuomo, there was not a very good relationship back then, as I understand. And DelBello eventually resigned. The governor needs a lieutenant governor who she can count on to help. And with all that's going on in the state right now, you have the prison crisis, you have the budget going on, you have a number of issues that are impacting potential funding coming into our state, it is no time to have this happen, and it's not the governor’s fault. The governor did not make this happen, and so I saw the Schenectady newspaper [editorialize that Delgado should step aside], it probably would be something that the current lieutenant governor should consider, because I do think the next almost two years in an office with no power, no authority, and I can assure you that as this drama plays out, nobody's going to want to actually be around him. He can certainly raise money on his own, but I think that’ll be difficult. He can call the media for a press thing, but when people know that you really you have no juice, you don't speak for the governor. I honestly think after the drama that is going on right now, kind of evaporates, the attention he will get will evaporate in a commensurate manner. So that would be a consideration for him, as opposed to sitting there and being paid for the next almost two years, but having no real authority or jobs. I did see this morning in the blogs that the governor has taken away offices, staff, which is to be expected. And I can assure you that the governor I worked for in my first four years, if I had ever done something like this, and it never would even cross my mind, I would sense I'd be assigned somewhere to the Canadian border watching something for the rest of my term.
The highway therapy.
In my Volkswagen bus. So I think that would be pretty much what happened. But, you know, there were times that I might not agree with policy decisions with the then governor, but Governor Cuomo always allowed me to speak my mind. I always did it privately. And you know, he listened. I had access. He would listen carefully. And when he made a decision, you know, I probably agreed 90% of the time, and those areas I didn't agree on, I felt that at least I was listened to and had input. And then I supported him, because he's the governor, and that's the way it should be. And I would sense the current LG has access to Governor Hochul. He could certainly weigh in and have his opinion. But when you have a public split like this, other than some media attention, it gets a story every now and then., that will wear out after a while. And I don't think that this announcement at this point of time, at this point in the middle of all these crises, I would say timing was not optimal, by any stretch, and any concerns he had or any frustrations should have been expressed privately. And while we all serve as an officer of the state, lieutenant governor is not separate from the governor. You're on the same ticket. The only separation is if there was a primary. But I never saw myself ever as separate from Governor Cuomo during the first term, he was the principal. I would not have been on a ticket without him. And I just believe Governor Hochul, if she looks for a new running mate, I would say loyalty is important, certainly policy understanding and depth. I think people that have been in office, on the ground, mayors, county executives, that are used to dealing with people in policy and have a relationship is a good thing, but also people that will take that job or consider for consider that job, you have to just take into consideration that you are not going to be the decision maker. You're gonna have input. You'll be part of a team, but you should know that up front.
Would you want to do it again? Would you be interested in joining up with Governor Hochul?
I've enjoyed a 10-year political career. I love what I do right now. You know, Governor Hochul is a friend and a colleague, and certainly would help any way that I can. But no, I am not going to go back into politics. And whenever I get asked it to go back in, I always say, if you can convince my wife, then come and see me. And I think that would be probably the biggest challenge.
Good answer.
When I first got elected with Governor Cuomo, I was interviewed by a media outlet. I'm not sure where…our transition office, and I was asked a question then, given the splits between governors and lieutenant governors in the history of our state, and there was some, I know, with Governor Pataki, there was a more recent one there. But the reporter asked me, How would you handle if you disagree with the governor? And I didn't even miss a beat. I said, the way I was raised, the way I operate, if I ever disagree with the governor, two of us will know, and when the door opens, nobody will know. And that's the way I maintained my four years. I don't think the reporter at that time appreciated my answer, but I think the governor did, and we had a sense of trust in the relationship. And I'm sure Governor Hochul had the same thing. And you know, these relationships can be frazzled at times. It can be frustrating, but I think a key thing for any professional is not that you're going to be frustrated or not. It's how you deal with frustration. And I think the way to deal with it is a great measure for the person that you deal with it privately. You don't have to air it publicly. And right now, I just I feel bad, because the current lieutenant governor is in a very difficult position right now, and I don't think it's going to get better. And my sense is Governor Hochul is moving on with her process, and she'll be able to find somebody that could jump in. But right now, I think for the next couple of years, she needs a lieutenant governor, the rest of her term and going on to her future campaign, she needs somebody who that will be by her side, be a partner, be supportive and be loyal.
Have you talked to Delgado about why he's done the things he's done over the past couple of years?
I had one meeting and dinner with Lieutenant Governor Delgado, which I enjoyed. He's a very nice guy. He has my cell. He has never reached out since then. And I have a habit: I don't ever call anybody and offer advice. If somebody wants my opinion, they can reach out and I will give you my opinion, but I just feel it's not in my position ever reach out to somebody and say, Hey, here's what I would do. But if he were ever to have reached out and asked me, I would say exactly what I'm saying right now, that deal with your frustration privately, be professional. If you want to make your decisions down the road, make them when the term ends, but you don't make it in the middle of a term right now and middle of a crisis going on with prisons, budget funding and everything else, and it could not come at a worse time. And I don't think that the perception overall is ever going to be a positive for this happening. You don't gain friends or support by doing something like this.
Do you think, because he has left the door open to it, that he could defeat Governor Hochul in a primary next year?
I would not make any predictions for any kind of primaries or elections, but I would say, Given these circumstances, it would be a huge uphill battle to ever take on a governor primary. And, you know, I ran for office. When I ran for mayor in Rochester, I ran because the mayor I served in my previous career was retiring. I would never have run against an incumbent mayor who I work for, never. So the only reason I did choose to run at that time, I was urged to run, former Mayor Johnson was leaving office. I think in these situations, even people that might not be fully supportive of Governor Hochul will probably not look fondly at how this has played out publicly, because I do think loyalty, decorum, and friendship matters, and you can't say I'm speaking out and making these comments because I'm serving the people of the state of New York. I don't think the people in the state of New York have been better served by what's going on in the last few weeks here. And I just, I wish it would have gone differently. You know, Governor Hochul, I'm sure, is impacted by this, as is the current lieutenant governor, but it's becoming a little bit of a drama statewide that could have been avoided. And I don't think Governor Hochul will be negatively impacted by this at all. I think Lieutenant Governor Delgado, maybe.
One more question for you. Your former boss, who we've been talking about, is expected to run for New York City mayor any day now. And obviously things did not end well for Governor Cuomo in Albany, but I'm wondering what your thoughts are about his comeback attempt here?
Well, I served under Governor Cuomo for the first term, the first four years, and I can tell you that when I was there, the things that I have read, heard never occurred. I think he did an extraordinary job during that term. It was a pleasure and honor to serve with him. I've also had a very good relationship with him, although I would say I've not spoken with the governor in years, so I've really had no direct contact with him. But if he chooses to run, he would be a formidable opponent. And one thing about Governor Cuomo that people across the board would say is that he gets things done. And I saw the polls, and it's really interesting that a city that is known to be very left-leaning with its politics has a tendency over the years of electing mayors that aren't left-leaning. And it just tells you that people want something a little bit different. And I know Mayor Adams. I like Mayor Adams. I'm not taking sides, but I do think reading what I'm reading almost on a daily basis, that I sense that the former Governor Cuomo is probably going to jump into the race, and he would be a formidable opponent. And you could always tell when the attacks are escalated, that person is usually seen as the favorite. And from what I've read where I sit every morning, and all the blogs and newspaper articles, you can see the attacks against him are escalating.
And I'd say this, because I had no contact. I was not there during COVID, during the nursing home issues, the things that people have accused him of, I could tell you, and I would say under oath, I never saw, heard, observed anything like that ever during the first four years. And it's something that people would ask me questions, and I've said the same thing to them. Never did I see that, and I served the first four years and was not there afterwards, but again, I took it as a badge of honor to be there for that first term, and enjoyed my time, and certainly again, did not have the same situation that the current lieutenant governor is having. And I would say Governor Hochul, not once did Governor Hochul during the two terms she was there serving as LG, she never went against the governor publicly. And hey, listen, these jobs will have frustration, but look back in the history — those things just didn't happen. So it'll be interesting to see what happens. But no, I appreciate the chance to answer your questions and again, just look at the future here. And I would say that you know, there’s a lot going on, but I just hope that the situation now with Governor Hochul and the current lieutenant governor can get stabilized quickly for really the best possible situation for New York state.
It's great to have former New York Lieutenant Governor Robert Duffy's voice back on WAMC. He's now the head of the Greater Rochester Chamber of Commerce. Thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us.
Ian, thank you. I also want to apologize for my voice. I took a nasty fall on the ice recently, have fractured ribs, so I think my voice is somewhat kind of hard to talk but I was very happy to be part of this interview. So thank you.
And a speedy recovery, please. Thank you, sir.
