AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
At just 50, Will Packer is riding high. He's the man behind huge Hollywood hits like "Girls Trip," "Think Like A Man" and "Stomp The Yard." He produced the 2022 Oscars.
WILL PACKER: Interns that have worked for me have gone on to win Oscars and Emmys and start their own production companies. That's part of the Will Packer tree.
RASCOE: And it's a tree that continues to grow. He's got a few TV series in development, as well as some sequels, and he has a new book. It's called "Who Better Than You?: The Art Of Healthy Arrogance & Dreaming Big." And it's part memoir, part advice from the perspective of a Black man in Hollywood who didn't come from Hollywood but who believed he could get there.
PACKER: What I believed was survival. It was self-preservation because I had graduated from undergrad at Florida A&M University, could not get any traction at all in traditional Hollywood circles. And I created this independent film called "Trois" and ultimately were able to convince five major theater chains and a couple of independents to carry the picture in markets primarily throughout the Southeast. And we chose those markets for two reasons. One, they were demographic-rich. We were going after an African American audience, trying to get them to see a thriller. You had not seen a lot of thrillers, especially erotic thrillers with African Americans in them.
This is a movie where you can see yourselves on screen, and you hadn't seen it before. And we were some young African American filmmakers. We want your support to come out and see "Trois." And we could drive to all those markets. I would go in, and I would say, OK, Regal, will you give us one screen at one of your cinemas in Birmingham, Alabama? And if they said no, I'd say, OK, Loews. They'd say no. I'd say, OK, AMC. And I was able to convince at least one theater owner in each of 19 Southeastern markets.
RASCOE: And it paid off.
PACKER: It paid off to the tune of us independently making a million dollars. Theater owners from other markets would call and say, hey, we want to book your film. We want "Trois." And it was funny. I'll never forget because we got a call from Oakland, and I said, I'm so sorry we can't open it in Oakland. It's just too far to drive, you know, because we drove to every market. And the theater owner was like, you know you don't have to drive. You could just send us a print of the movie. Like, that's what everybody else does.
RASCOE: Obviously, the title of this book is "Healthy Arrogance." And, you know, look, it does seem like you have had a stick-to-it-ness that others don't have. Where do you think that came from?
PACKER: It's funny because I believe that confidence is a muscle and that you build it with success, and you build it over time after you work it, just like any other muscle that you might have. So when I think about where the confidence that I have comes from, it's from the fact - before I ever did "Trois," I had "Chocolate City." And that was a tiny student film that we made when we were still in undergrad, and I convinced one single theater in Tallahassee, Florida, to carry our film. The guy did not want to carry it. I had to beg, and I had to be very, very persistent. Finally got him to carry it for one weekend, and we sold out that weekend. And so that's what it takes, I think, to build that confidence in yourself and in whatever endeavor you're pursuing is to get a little momentum.
RASCOE: What is healthy arrogance, and how do you separate that from being delusional about what you can accomplish?
PACKER: First of all, arrogance, typically, is toxic. It is typically hubris that's unsubstantiated. Healthy arrogance is a supreme confidence that you walk into a room, and it doesn't matter how successful, powerful or important the people are in that room, you realize that no one in that room is more important or more deserving of success than you. And not only do you belong in that room, but you have something to add to that room. And that room is better because you're in it, and you can bring everybody in that room up, typically, by getting them to see the commonality and the values and the goals that you're trying to attain.
RASCOE: Now, I got to ask you about the Oscars. You produced the awards show in 2022 when Will Smith slapped Chris Rock. You don't go into too many details in the book, but you say you were disappointed after the show. But with time, you've said you feel really proud of that show. Why?
PACKER: Because the things that I could control went the way that I intended them to go. There's nothing I could've done to stop what happened when Will Smith went onstage and approached and slapped Chris Rock. However, I can control who the hosts were and the emcees and HBCU students I had onstage, and the diversity I had behind the scenes and all the other stuff that I could control. That's where I have to give my energy. And for me, yes, extremely disappointing that that happened, but ultimately, I am now able to see we accomplished some really good things in spite of that.
RASCOE: Why do you think you've been able to produce these major films when we often hear stories about executives, you know, worrying about whether audiences will show up for Black movies or they don't do well internationally or what have you? And how do you overcome - 'cause some people may say, well, I'm trying to succeed, but the odds are stacked against me as a person of color or because of my gender or because I don't have money or - and that's true, right? The odds are stacked against you.
PACKER: Absolutely. No question. And you have to do a full assessment of how is this particular industry, this world, this company, how is it quantifying success? You asked, how am I able to continue making movies, have the success that I have had as an African American filmmaker who makes movies for African Americans. The answer's very simple. My movies make money. Period. Now, that's not to say that the system is not something that makes it extremely difficult for a Black filmmaker or filmmakers from marginalized communities, because it is. And that's most systems, right?
They're not designed to let voices, cultures in that are not in the majority culture. But they are designed to make money. It's hard to get any movie made. It's certainly hard to get a Black movie made. And it's certainly hard to get a Black movie made where you're trying to have healthy representations and full-rounded representations of people. "Girls Trip" comes to mind. You know, those were four Black sisters at the Essence Festival behaving badly. But they were human. They had depth. They had nuance to their relationship. So they weren't just going out and drinking and partying. They also were discussing issues of, you know, sisterhood and infidelity and career.
I think you have to have a balance. And as a filmmaker, I don't care - you know, yes, I'm a Black filmmaker. If I was a Black pharmacist, if I was a Black, you know, construction worker, if I had an accounting firm, I would have some of the same kinds of challenges walking into rooms not seeing people that look like me and having to figure out how to navigate that, how to be true to myself and my community. And also get pushback at times from my community, but still realizing that I've got a tremendous opportunity because I am one of a few people to occupy my space.
RASCOE: That's Will Packer. His book is called "Who Better Than You?" Thank you so much for speaking with us today.
PACKER: Absolutely. I really enjoyed it. Thank you for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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