AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
Mike is a young man living in the outskirts of society, roaming the streets of London asking for a spare change. Unhoused and struggling with substance abuse, he lands himself in prison for stealing a watch and physically assaulting a man who was trying to help him. Seven months later, he's released and determined to get back on track. But the odds are against him, as his parole officer explains.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "URCHIN")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) You know, we'll put you in touch with local authority, and they'll make referrals to housing. But I have to be honest with you, Mike, you're not going to be top priority.
FRANK DILLANE: (As Mike) Why's that?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Oh, young male with previous convictions, a history of violence, no medical problems or physical disabilities. It's just going to be harder. I have to be honest.
DILLANE: (As Mike) No, I get that.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) It's better that you know that from the start.
DILLANE: (As Mike) Yeah.
RASCOE: Frank Dillane plays Mike in the new film "Urchin," the directorial debut for the young but famed actor Harris Dickinson. The two of them join us now. Thank you for being with us.
HARRIS DICKINSON: Thanks for having us. Good to be here.
DILLANE: Thanks.
RASCOE: This film focuses on the effects of substance abuse and homelessness. Harris, is there something that you felt like you wanted to capture that people don't generally understand?
DICKINSON: Yeah, I mean, I think there are a lot of misconceptions around addicts and people that have been through extreme trauma or people that are unhoused. And I think, you know, what we were trying to do is just present it very simply without judgment, present a full life of someone going through really precarious circumstances and show the levity and the humanity. And I think not a lot of people realize how difficult it is once you've been, you know, A, incarcerated or B, lost touch with any sort of support network and dealing with various different forms of mental health issues. It's incredibly difficult to reassimilate and find your feet again.
RASCOE: And Frank, the character of Mike - certainly, he can be easy to root for at times, but at other times, he's a bit of a jerk. He can be vulnerable and polite, but then sometimes he's short-tempered and, you know, violent. How did you approach the challenge of playing this really complex character?
DILLANE: Well, Harris and I - one thing we really wanted to do was to dignify Mike and to make sure that he was a full person, a well-rounded person. I think all human beings have many different colors to their personality, and we are all susceptible to mistakes, to at times behaving in ways that we wished we hadn't. Harris turned me on to some literature. We watched a lot of movies, and then we went into prisons. And yeah, we just - I tried to spend as much time outside as possible and trying to get to grips with the different themes that we wanted to explore.
RASCOE: And Harris, I mean, there is a view of society at large, as well, right? Like, you get - you start off with Mike asking people passing by for spare change, then going to a soup kitchen, and then he's chatting with other people who are living on the streets. There's not a lot of dialogue, and Mike is kind of kept at an angle, at a distance. Was that distance meant to show how often, as society, we see homelessness from afar or we choose to ignore it?
DICKINSON: Yes. I think the start of the film - we were very keen on trying to exploring him from a more voyeuristic documentary-type situation. And then a lot of the stuff we shot when Mike was living on the streets and, you know, going up to people - they were real passerbys (ph), and we were quite far away, and we would - did that more to hide, you know, so we could get real reactions and incorporate real life into Mike's journey. So it felt like there was a sense of isolation, as well, which is ultimately just a part of being in that situation.
It's all something - we're guilty of it, you know, even myself. We don't have time for everyone. We have busy lives, and a lot of the time, we just want to carry on in our bubble and keep things moving. So it's not a - it's not an attack or assault on anyone's behavior. It's just an observation, you know?
RASCOE: Frank, also, there's a really powerful scene when your character comes face to face with the person he's assaulted. What do you think that scene tells us about the way we treat guilt and also about our ability as a society to forgive?
DILLANE: I can't speak about forgiveness, really, I suppose, in a societal level. I can speak about the character I was playing in that scene, how we approached the scene. And you know, there was elements of Mike's personality, which allowed him to compartmentalize a lot and kind of forget in order to move forward and kind of put things in boxes, and, like, yeah, that happened, but never mind, forget about it, let's just move on. There's a kind of fantastical thinking that human beings can do. And I think addiction can also feed into that, this sort of just living for the moment, forgetting the past, you know, just trying to move forward. And that is possible until the past comes and smacks you right in the face, and you're forced to confront something that you had chosen to forget.
RASCOE: Harris, you're only 29, and you've already had a big success as an actor in hits like "The Iron Claw" and "Babygirl." Why switch to directing? And what was it like to be behind the camera for the first time?
DICKINSON: Directing is always something I wanted to do. I've thought about it for a very long time. It was probably, you know, my first love before acting really took off. So it's been kind of bubbling away in the background since I can remember. So I think that now just felt like the perfect moment. I couldn't kind of wait any longer to make this film in particular, you know?
RASCOE: Well, and not to put you on the spot, Frank, but how did Harris do directing?
(LAUGHTER)
DILLANE: Listen, Harris is a really good director. I mean this from the bottom of my heart. He's incredibly hands-on, as in he really gets into the scene with you. And always at the forefront was dignifying the characters. And yeah, I think he's an important voice for this generation.
DICKINSON: Nice for the ego.
(LAUGHTER)
RASCOE: The new film "Urchin," written and directed by Harris Dickinson and starring Frank Dillane, is out now. Thank you so much for speaking with us.
DICKINSON: Thank you.
DILLANE: Cheers, thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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