MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
You cannot talk about culture in the 1990s without talking about Arsenio Hall. His late-night TV show premiered nationwide in January 1989. No desk. No side kick. No, this was not "The Tonight Show." This was a party that started with a call...
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE ARSENIO HALL SHOW")
BURTON RICHARDSON: (Drawn out) It's Arsenio Hall.
(CHEERING)
MARTIN: ...And was met with a response.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOG POUND WOOFING)
ARSENIO HALL: Hey.
MARTIN: "The Arsenio Hall Show" was a launchpad for some of hip-hop's biggest names, a gathering place for stand-up comics, political activists, musical artists, from Prince to Elton John to Shirley Caesar. At times, it was must-watch TV. He talks about all this and more in his new memoir titled, "Arsenio." He writes of his childhood in Ohio and how he realized he was meant to entertain.
HALL: I used to do a talk show in my basement.
MARTIN: How old were you?
HALL: I was about 11.
MARTIN: Eleven.
HALL: And I would put out folding chairs, and the kids in the neighborhood would come and sit. And I had a record player. I'd put the needle on the record, and maybe one of the kids in the neighborhood - I remember Junior could sing. So Junior would be my musical guest, and we'd put on a Temptations song, and he would sing, and then I'd interview him.
MARTIN: You wanted to be Johnny Carson.
HALL: Yes. I wanted to be an old...
MARTIN: And how many...
HALL: ...White man.
MARTIN: You wanted to be (laughter)...
HALL: But here's the deal. I dreamed it. I planned it. So I expected it. I was too dumb and naive as a Cleveland kid to think that it might not happen.
MARTIN: Your show changed the face of entertainment. I don't think there's any question about that. I mean, it introduced a lot of Black artists to a wider audience. You had hard-hitting conversations about race and about politics, about sexuality. You know, I was asking a lot of my colleagues. Everybody remembers different things. Like, one person remembers your conversation with RuPaul, when you asked in a very nice way, did you want to be a woman? And he said, no. This is my art form. I'm a performer, and this is my art. People remember...
HALL: Like, a lot of people in the heterosexual community were ignorant to certain things. I think, thank God for a friend like RuPaul or all the people that will help us to understand.
MARTIN: You had a conversation with Magic Johnson literally hours after he went public with his HIV status.
HALL: Yeah. That was a hard one. That was the one I didn't want to do.
MARTIN: Why not?
HALL: Well, first of all, I was brokenhearted. Secondly, I said to him when he called me, shouldn't you be doing, like, Mike Wallace or Larry King? And he says, no. I got to go where I'm comfortable. We have to do this. You have to do this. And I said, OK.
MARTIN: But you write that studio executives often seemed to miss the point. I mean, we've got this clip of an interview that you did with NPR back in 1989. This was when your show was just about to go on. It was just about to go head-to-head against a late-night show starring Pat Sajak, and your partners at Paramount were nervous. Let me just play this clip from the interview.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
HALL: They're very, very uncomfortable because the people in that meeting room are not my audience. My audience is probably much hipper and much younger than the executives I'm in a partnership with. If they want Sajak, they should have hired him. This is what I do, and I can only be Arsenio.
MARTIN: You know...
HALL: Wow.
MARTIN: ...It was prescient, right? You actually started having fights with people.
HALL: Yeah.
MARTIN: In fact, I think the way you put it was some of the white folks thought it was too Black, and some of...
HALL: Absolutely.
MARTIN: ...The Black folks thought it was too white.
HALL: Yeah. It was a complicated balance. I was the Wallenda of late night. I wanted to do this show that I dreamed of as a kid. When I would watch television - I could watch a talk show, and it might be a month before I saw a Black person. And finally, hey, there's Ray Charles, you know? You know, Paramount used to battle because - for instance, I said to them, OK, I just met a guy named Ice Cube. He played something for me called "F (ph) Tha Police." But I said the word to them. And they were like, oh, no. That's not the show. We're not going in that direction. And they would dangle a carrot in front of me of saying, if you do this right, when Johnny retires, you'll be in a perfect position to replace him. And I'm like, first of all, network's never going to do the kind of show I want to do, and I'm never going to change to that degree. Imagine...
MARTIN: And how do you feel about it now? Do you feel like mission accomplished, or do you feel...
HALL: Oh, absolutely.
MARTIN: Really?
HALL: Absolutely. I look back at the little, tiny boy doing an Elvis impression who later turned out to be Bruno Mars. I look at Snoop Dogg, who didn't want to do television and told me, I don't want to mess up my street cred in Long Beach. I talked him into it, and now he's the most famous dog on the planet. He's more popular than Lassie. So...
MARTIN: (Laughter) He's on the Olympics, for crying out.
HALL: Yes. I had to talk him into coming on and freestyling first and then coming back when the album was finished. And him and Dre did, (rapping) one, two, three and to the four, Snoop Doggy Dogg and Dr. Dre at the door.
That's crazy. Crazy.
MARTIN: Bill Clinton's interview - everybody who follows politics, remembers, right? Did you have a sense then that this was going to be something that would change things? It changed the way people run for office.
HALL: Yeah. I also offered this show to Mr. Bush, but he turned it down.
MARTIN: Bush 41...
HALL: Right.
MARTIN: ...The 41st president.
HALL: When I was a kid, my dad was a Republican. My mother was a Democrat. I got to hear about both sides. And that's what I wanted to be as a talk show host. They saw what I was doing. And it's like, tomorrow night, George Bush and New Edition.
MARTIN: (Laughter).
HALL: They didn't see that in their vision, but Clinton did. And then after the numbers came in for my show, he went to MTV. He saw how you have to talk to young people.
MARTIN: So what's the rest of your life been for people who haven't read the book yet?
HALL: You know what's interesting? What really dawned on me is I've been grinding, trying to make this dream come true since my basement in Cleveland. And I realized the thing I was missing was life and family. I was just working, and I wanted a child.
MARTIN: Yeah.
HALL: And so...
MARTIN: You became hyperfocused on...
HALL: Yeah.
MARTIN: ...Being a dad.
HALL: So I got to parent in a whole different way than my parents got to parent. 'Cause my parents were grinding. I had a different life than my son. I was always there. I used my wealth and fame to be the best father I could be.
MARTIN: Arsenio Hall, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us.
HALL: Thank you. That was cool.
MARTIN: Arsenio Hall's new memoir is titled - guess what it is - "Arsenio."
HALL: A lot of thinking went into that.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "NUTHIN' BUT A "G" THANG")
DR DRE AND SNOOP DOGG: (Rapping) One, two, three and to the fo' (ph). Snoop Doggy Dogg and Dr. Dre is at the do' (ph). Ready to make an entrance, so back up. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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