A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
In comics and movies, superheroes tend to be role models. But on TV show "The Boys," the Supes, as they're called, are anything but.
ERIC KRIPKE: They're people who are messed up, like everybody, suddenly granted incredible amounts of power.
MARTÍNEZ: That's Eric Kripke, the showrunner of "The Boys." Like the comic it's based on, it's a political satire. When Supes mess up, the fallout is deadly. And a corporation called Vought International covers up their mistakes to protect their profits.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE BOYS")
ANTONY STARR: (As Homelander) I don't make mistakes. I'm not just like the rest of you. I'm stronger. I'm smarter. I'm better.
MARTÍNEZ: That's the villain, Homelander, played by Antony Starr. He's kind of like Superman if Superman were a sociopath. He's the leader of Vought's superhero team, The Seven, and he's effectively become the dictator of the United States. Eric Kripke and actor Jessie T. Usher joined me to discuss the fifth and final season of "The Boys," which premieres today on Amazon Prime Video. And we should mention that Amazon is a financial supporter of NPR and pays to distribute some of our content, and there are some light spoilers ahead.
So in the season premiere, there's this really great scene where he's talking to his adviser, the genius Supe known as Sister Sage, and she's played by Susan Heyward. And this is coming after a very incriminating video of him leaked, and it gives you a sense of what Homelander's priorities are. Let's play that.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE BOYS")
STARR: (As Homelander) I was humiliated. He said people don't hate me enough.
SUSAN HEYWARD: (As Sister Sage) Your numbers on north of 96.
STARR: (As Homelander) Anyone can smile for the pollsters, sure, but millions of them are still Starlighters in their hearts, where it counts. Have you seen the memes? Have you seen the memes about me? Posting them should be a crime.
HEYWARD: (As Sister Sage) Yes, but we can't go - oh, you're serious.
MARTÍNEZ: So Starlighters - referring there to supporters of the Supe Starlight, who's leading a resistance against Homelander. Eric, what does this clip, though, tell us about Homelander?
KRIPKE: I think so many of the most powerful people have the thinnest skin. Homelander is not the strongest character in the show. He's, in fact, the weakest character in the show because he's so insecure. He knows deep down who he really is, you know? So he hates himself.
MARTÍNEZ: Now, Jessie, I want to turn to you because you play A-Train. Tell us about A-Train. Who is A-Train?
JESSIE T USHER: A-Train is the fastest man on Earth, but he was a member of The Seven and, you know, directly under Homelander, who on the surface level was a selfish, self-preserving hero who, you know, only did heroic acts to sort of compliment his image. But now A-Train is part of the revolution. You know, he's turned a new leaf.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE BOYS")
USHER: (As A-Train) You know, when I carried your a** to the ER, there was a kid there looking at me like I was a hero. There were no screaming fans, no cameras. Nobody even knew, except for this one kid. That felt better than anything that I had ever done at Vought.
MARTÍNEZ: A-Train, though, has always struck me as a character in Homelander's orbit that, at least for a while, suspends being a person and trades it for being a persona. It's a trade that he never seemed comfortable with. So why do you think he does it?
USHER: I don't think that he ever intended on being the version of A-Train that he ended up being when he first started being a member of The Seven. I think that he always intended for that to be like an act of heroism, and he was going to get a chance to save people. And he realized, you know, soon after that that wasn't the case. We just see him sort of lean into that public persona, more so than ever showing who he truly is because that's vulnerability. And in his world, vulnerability can equal death, and you just can't really show that when you're standing around people like Homelander.
MARTÍNEZ: There's another scene a little later on in that season premiere where Sister Sage is having a conversation with the vice president of the U.S., Ashley Barrett, played by Colby Minifie. And they talk about how far Homelander is willing to go.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE BOYS")
HEYWARD: (As Sister Sage) He wants more Starlighters arrested.
COLBY MINIFIE: (As Ashley Barrett) But everyone who smashed a window or held a can of spray paint is already at camp.
HEYWARD: (As Sister Sage) Now it's anyone who registered as a Starlighter or posted defamatory things about Homelander. Cyber terrorists are terrorists, too.
MINIFIE: (As Ashley Barrett) True. It's just that we've already purged the CIA, DOJ, FBI, FTC, CDC, EPA, DHS, HHS and USPS. We deported the nation's nannies and gardeners. We arrested Chappell Roan and Tyler, the Creator, and they canceled Coachella. But now he wants to detain thousands of American citizens?
MARTÍNEZ: So, Eric, what does this tell us about how Homelander ideally wants to run the country?
KRIPKE: Oh, it's...
(LAUGHTER)
KRIPKE: Right? It's in an authoritarian way that, I think, unfortunately, has ever-growing parallels to our world. And the fact that the world is getting crazier than our superhero show does not say great things for the world.
MARTÍNEZ: Jessie, when you look back on being A-Train, what will you miss the most about it now that the show's coming to an end?
USHER: Oh, man. I think I'm going to miss peeling back his layers and just making him a real person. It's not very often that you have a character in film or television that makes a complete turnaround, you know, that changes not just his mind but his heart. I'm going to miss that process.
MARTÍNEZ: Eric, you're landing this plane. How does it feel for us to be bringing this huge story to a close? And considering how fanatical this fan base is for "The Boys," do you feel any pressure to deliver a satisfying ending?
KRIPKE: Are you kidding? I feel nothing but pressure.
USHER: (Laughter).
KRIPKE: Landing the plane is so hard. And by the way, on top of it all, I've been in this business for, jeez, 20-plus years, and this is the first finale I've ever had the opportunity to write.
USHER: Wow.
KRIPKE: 'Cause my [expletive] just gets canceled.
MARTÍNEZ: (Laughter).
KRIPKE: So it's not like I even have, like, a ton of experience with it, right? I'm really praying that people dig it.
MARTÍNEZ: Eric Kripke is the showrunner for "The Boys." Jessie T. Usher plays the speedster Supe, A-Train. "The Boys" final season streams on Amazon Prime. Eric, Jessie, thank you so much for giving me some time.
KRIPKE: Thank you, man.
USHER: Thank you, sir. We appreciate you, man.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "THE BOYS ARE BACK IN TOWN")
THIN LIZZY: (Singing) The boys are back in town. The boys are back in town. The boys are back in town. The boys are back in town. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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