AILSA CHANG, HOST:
It takes a team to build a global pop star. In the new movie "Mother Mary," written and directed by David Lowery, that pop star, Mother Mary, has been estranged from the creative partner who helped shape her whole persona for more than a decade. And in a moment of artistic crisis, Mary shows up at her door.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "MOTHER MARY")
MICHAELA COEL: (As Sam Anselm) Why don't you start with why you're here?
ANNE HATHAWAY: (As Mother Mary) Sam, I need a dress.
CHANG: Sam is Sam Anselm, played by Michaela Coel. Anne Hathaway plays Mother Mary.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "BURIAL")
HATHAWAY: (As Mother Mary, singing) This black suit fits like a glove. I was born to be the widow of love.
CHANG: Mother Mary needs, yes, a dress, but she needs way more than that. She needs a rebirth or maybe an exorcism of sorts. When we talked with the two stars, Coel described how sometimes when artists collaborate, they create something that extends far beyond the both of them.
COEL: I think that's what's happened with Mother Mary and Sam Anselm. They have discovered that when they collaborate, spiritual things happen, powerful things happen, and for those things to keep happening, it's better that they stay in close communion.
CHANG: Who do you think holds the power in their relationship - between the two women?
HATHAWAY: For me, it's kind of like they're magnetic fields at the same time. They're attracted to each other, and then they're repulsed by each other in equal measure. I'm not sure either one of them ever has the power. It kind of changes depending on...
CHANG: The direction.
HATHAWAY: ...Which way they're angled.
CHANG: Yeah.
COEL: Yeah, I would agree. I remember at one point in the filming, David explained to me that Anselm meant God's helmet. And it's so boundaryless in that you have God, but then you have God's helmet. And which one is the more powerful? And depending on what perspective you look at, you will come to different conclusions.
CHANG: Absolutely. I understand that the two of you had never met before this movie, is that right?
COEL: Mm-hmm.
HATHAWAY: That is true.
CHANG: Did either of you have, I don't know, some perception or some assumption about the other person that was eventually proven wrong when you did get to know each other through the making of this film?
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: The pregnant pause.
HATHAWAY: No, no, no, I'm just - 'cause the thing that I knew about Michaela was your work on "I May Destroy You." And so I just knew that I was going to be in the presence of a towering talent and intellect and heart and, you know, searing soul. And I was just very excited. And genuinely, the one thing I was just really afraid of was that I wouldn't measure up.
CHANG: Michaela, how does that make you feel? Anne Hathaway is afraid that she didn't measure up to you, or she was afraid (laughter).
COEL: I know (ph). It's - what a strange thing to hear and an impossible thing to compute.
CHANG: Did you have any idea that Anne Hathaway could dance like that? I'm talking about that incredibly intense, tormented dance sequence in the barn with no music.
COEL: I don't know if Anne Hathaway knew Anne Hathaway could dance like that (ph).
(LAUGHTER)
HATHAWAY: Oh, Anne Hathaway knew for sure she can't dance like that. This has been a revelation.
COEL: Yeah.
CHANG: No, but that's what I want to ask you, Anne, 'cause you did two years of almost daily dance training to prepare for this role. Was it a new kind of vulnerability to learn and perfect your dance skills?
HATHAWAY: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was like I'm trying to think of the nice way to say this. It was insanity producing.
CHANG: (Laughter) Tell me why. What do you mean?
HATHAWAY: Oh, because I - you know, it's - I fell in love with acting from a very young age and explored what type of performer I was. And I knew for a fact that I would love to be a dancer, but I just couldn't do it. And it wasn't from lack of trying. I went to dance class all the time growing up. I just for some reason couldn't figure out why I wouldn't improve. And in order to play this part, I had to undo a certainty that I had about myself. And that's very, very vulnerable because, you know, for the first 90% of it, you just feel delusional, and you just feel like you're about to fall in front of your face, and you feel silly that you ever dared try to change your mind about yourself. But I have.
COEL: Yes, really honestly, heroic stuff, Anne, you know, because I think that there's obviously a million different ways to play a pop star, and you could have easily gone, well, this is my capacity. This is what I can do. You're hiring me, so you're going to get what I've got. But Anne, you pushed yourself.
HATHAWAY: (Laughter).
COEL: And from my position, why should I be proud? But I was just so proud, so proud.
(LAUGHTER)
HATHAWAY: Thanks, Michaela (ph).
COEL: You know, it's a lot to do on a hard wood floor in front of a crew.
CHANG: No music.
COEL: No music, a crew with naturally - and I'm sure kind-meaning - ambivalent faces, you know?
(LAUGHTER)
COEL: And doing that, it's a lot, you know? And it moves me. I will not forget...
CHANG: Me too.
COEL: ...That day. Yeah.
CHANG: Yeah.
HATHAWAY: I have to say, one of my - I think that the peak experience of this film for me was Michaela's reaction to seeing the barn dance for the first time because I - you know, I didn't realize it until that moment, but I really wanted you to love it. And when I finished, and you went, are you crazy?
(LAUGHTER)
HATHAWAY: It lives in my heart and echoes through my head. It's one of my proudest moments as an actor ever...
CHANG: That is awesome.
COEL: Are you crazy?
HATHAWAY: ...Was getting you to scream, are you crazy?
COEL: Scream. Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
COEL: Screaming, are you crazy? And that's what I do when something is, like, too [expletive] good.
CHANG: (Laughter).
COEL: Crazy.
CHANG: Are you crazy?
COEL: Yeah, she brought that out of me.
HATHAWAY: Thank you. Thank you. That's all I wanted.
CHANG: I love this. I love this so much. OK, I don't want to give too much away, but in this movie, there is a spooky, supernatural element to Sam and Mary's connection. Have either of you ever had a supernatural experience, something that, like, you just could not shake that stays with you?
HATHAWAY: I'm trying to figure out how much I want to reveal.
CHANG: Ooh. Get in there, Anne (laughter).
HATHAWAY: OK. Yeah, I lived in a haunted apartment in Brooklyn.
CHANG: What? How was it haunted?
HATHAWAY: Yeah.
CHANG: What evidence did you have that was haunted?
HATHAWAY: Temperature changes and then I felt the presence of somebody, and I felt it was a woman, and she tried to push me down the stairs.
CHANG: Oh, my God. It was a mean ghost.
HATHAWAY: No, no, no, no. No, no, I didn't think she was mean. I just think she didn't want us in her space. And...
(LAUGHTER)
HATHAWAY: ...I just pointed out to her that we lived on two different planes. We didn't have to - like, I was like, I'm not going anywhere. We're here. I will be nothing but nice to you. You just be nice to me, and you're not allowed to push me down the stairs. And we got on really fine after that.
CHANG: Oh, my God. Yeah.
COEL: So you spoke to her.
CHANG: Yeah, I do that.
COEL: Wow. Yeah, OK.
CHANG: And came to an understanding. Michaela?
HATHAWAY: Now you understand I was hesitant to say this.
COEL: Yeah, it's a no for me.
HATHAWAY: (Laughter).
CHANG: It's a no, even in London?
COEL: I have - there was a period of time where I was, like, trying to, like, open myself up to see things, and then it was like, you know what? I like this earthly plane.
(LAUGHTER)
COEL: I'm just trying to chill with people on here. I don't want to see what's beyond the veil.
CHANG: Sounds good to me.
COEL: Right?
CHANG: Michaela Coel and Anne Hathaway star in the new movie "Mother Mary." Thank you to both of you so much. This was so fun.
COEL: Thank you.
HATHAWAY: (Laughter) Thank you. You got us - me talking about ghosts.
CHANG: (Laughter).
HATHAWAY: I got to send Michaela to the apartment, see if it's for real or if it's just my imagination.
COEL: I was just so good. I'm good without ghosts, Anne (ph).
HATHAWAY: (Laughter).
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HOLY SPIRIT 2")
HATHAWAY: (As Mother Mary, singing) Did you ever feel you're holy? Did you ever feel it? Did you ever fear it? Did you ever feel you're holy? Did you ever feel it? Did you ever fear it? Feel the sign of your mind could match the prayer of your lips. Lord, forgive our wasted time. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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