AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
In the new film "Hokum," Adam Scott plays Ohm Bauman, a novelist who travels to Ireland to spread his parents' ashes in the same place they honeymooned decades before. At the hotel, he speaks with bartender Fiona, who tells him about the building's dark history.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "HOKUM")
ADAM SCOTT: (As Ohm Bauman) Hey, I noticed the honeymoon suite - it's closed. I wonder if that's the room they stayed in.
FLORENCE ORDESH: (As Fiona) That has been closed a long time. Do you know why?
SCOTT: (As Ohm Bauman) Because no couple in their right mind would honeymoon here?
ORDESH: (As Fiona) It's haunted.
SCOTT: (As Ohm Bauman) Oh.
ORDESH: (As Fiona) By a witch.
RASCOE: Damian McCarthy wrote and directed "Hokum," and he joins us now. Welcome to the program.
DAMIAN MCCARTHY: Hi. Thank you very much for having me.
RASCOE: This story, really, to me seems kind of rooted in, like, scary stories that we tell children. You know, definitely some hints of, you know, stories by the Brothers Grimm, like "Hansel and Gretel." What made you want to go in that direction?
MCCARTHY: It's all that. Yeah. That's exactly it. It was about that. I mean, it's about a character who something happened to him as a child, and it kind of seems to be that that's where his life stopped with these things that happened to him when he was so young. So I like the idea that by the time he has to finally confront it, it's a witch that makes it happen. It's kind of like she's still chasing that little boy in him. Growing up, I always just loved a good witch story, all those fairy tales, and, you know, there was always something - you know, Roald Dahl's "The Witches" and there was always something very spooky about them.
RASCOE: And "Hokum" - it's set in this fictional Bilberry Woods Hotel. What was the inspiration for the building? And how did you decide to kind of make it into its, like, own character in the movie?
MCCARTHY: Well, I knew that we were going to spend so much time in that building, and it was, you know, it was going to be like its own character in a way because anything that was going to be cinematic about the film was going to rely very heavily on where we shot. Now, we shot it in the southwest of Ireland, so we did look at old creepy hotels that are there, you know, hotels that have a lot of history. But just practically, it never would have been a good place to film, you know, too small or just, you know, the building would have worked against us.
But we found this private residence, which was a very old home. It was beautiful just in its plasterwork and carpentry, and then, of course, there was a challenge then of building the honeymoon suite, this haunted honeymoon suite that houses a witch, and it was kind of a case then of building that but trying to make it, you know, follow the design of the existing building. Yeah, so that - I just always knew it was going to be very important that if that hotel didn't look cool and creepy on film, that, you know, that the film might fall apart right from the start.
RASCOE: And, you know, the thing about that honeymoon suite, it's locked, and it's been locked a long time. And I always wonder this, why in scary movies there's a locked room, there's some place in the property that's been locked a long time, everybody's like, we got to go in that room? 'Cause if it's been closed off for a long time, I don't want to go in there.
(LAUGHTER)
MCCARTHY: But isn't that the lovely thing about horror films, is, like, you go, they just told you don't go in there? It's a terrible idea. It's like, OK, I got to go in there. You know? And it's kind of the tricky thing with writing them, too, because you're going, well - you know, the audience - you kind of want - you know, you want the audience to say, oh, it would be a really bad idea to go in there. I really want him to go in there. You know? It's like you want your characters to be, you know, to make those bad decisions. So, yeah, it's a little bit of a balancing act to still make it believable why they do it, you know?
RASCOE: Yes. Talk to me a bit about Ohm's character, 'cause, you know, in the scene we heard, he sounds very friendly with Fiona. But generally, he's kind of mean.
MCCARTHY: Yeah. Adam Scott plays Ohm. So I think it was something that I liked when I was writing, and it was like, OK, well, you know, you could start off with a very, you know, very nice, kind of kind character, and then, you know, the audience will really like him, and then they'll be very worried if anything happens to him, that the witch will get him. And I thought, well, that's usually what a horror film would do, and that's what makes it scary if you, you know, if you care for the character. That's the kind of thing. Well, what if you flip that and what if you have a character who really is not likable? You know, this guy really is not likable. And I kind of wondered, would the interesting thing be about that, that the audience would go, oh, yeah, I can't wait till this character gets what's coming to him.
RASCOE: (Laughter)
MCCARTHY: You know, this guy is so horrible. I really want the witch to get her hands on this guy.
RASCOE: There are these moments in the film that are really, like, kind of claustrophobic. There's this scene where Ohm travels to the basement and is listening to a recording that Fiona made.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "HOKUM")
ORDESH: (As Fiona) I think there's someone down here. I keep hearing something.
RASCOE: Yeah, that's that stuff I like, but it is scary.
MCCARTHY: Yeah.
RASCOE: How do you go from the pages of the script that you're writing to filming to make sure that you're achieving what you were trying to bring out on the page?
MCCARTHY: It's just trying to hang on to that initial feeling you had when you were writing it, you know? So it's, like, I would write - I love writing. I love staying up late and writing and trying to work all this stuff out and, you know, write in a pretty dark room. And I kind of know when it's working when I start to give myself the creeps a little bit, kind of writing, ooh, that's good. And you start glancing over your shoulder, and, you know, that's where I usually kind of feel like, OK, this is working on me. So, you know, hopefully it'll work on somebody else. Like, if it's scaring me a little bit or giving me the creeps, then I think it's going to work on somebody else, too.
RASCOE: This film is kind of unafraid to lean into the horror genre, but while also exploring psychological themes. Do you draw a distinction between horror and, like, a psychological thriller?
MCCARTHY: I think it's a very fine line. I mean, I've always liked that psychological thriller, and I like the fact that even all of the threats in the film, it's not strictly even a supernatural - you know, like, it's not exactly a full-on supernatural horror either. There are elements of just like, you know, a real-life villain, just this really cowardly villain that comes into it that's just, like, a horrible guy. That's very, very separate from anything supernatural. And, of course, the fact that Adam's character does spend, you know, a good chunk of the movie on his own. There is all that psychological torment that he's going through and kind of, you know, battling demons, real and whatever he's dealing with internally.
RASCOE: This movie is set in Ireland. All three of your feature films have been set there. I got to ask you, like, what's so scary about Ireland?
MCCARTHY: (Laughter) [inaudible] where I grew up. So I'm from Cork, which is...
RASCOE: OK.
MCCARTHY: ...In the southwest of Ireland. So it's a lovely place. It's beautiful, and it's very quiet and, you know, there's a nice, slow, peaceful quality of life there, but it's - I like the idea that it feels kind of haunted, and, you know, there is something about that. It does feel very old. Yeah, and I guess it's just been inspiring me for years to try to tell stories that are set there, such as "Hokum."
RASCOE: That was filmmaker Damian McCarthy. His new movie "Hokum" is out now. Thank you so much for speaking with us.
MCCARTHY: Oh, thank you very much. I really enjoyed that. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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