LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: Podcaster Jennifer Welch got her start on Bravo's "Sweet Home Oklahoma."
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JENNIFER WELCH: Some people just kind of shy away from the spotlight. I don't know what that feels like (laughter). But I respect it.
FADEL: The show got canceled, but the interior designer had a following online and was a self-professed news junkie.
WELCH: I was raised in Oklahoma City, and I have very progressive parents that are atheists. And that was kind of a unicorn existence in the Bible Belt. So even though I was an interior designer, when I would get home from work, I didn't do any design work. I was knee-deep in politics all of the time because if you are progressive and you aren't religious and you live around a bunch of conservative religious people, your viewpoint of how dangerous their ideas are are in your face all of the time.
FADEL: So Welch launched the "I've Had It" podcast with her best friend Angie Sullivan, known to fans as Pumps.
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WELCH: All right, Pumps. What have you had it with?
ANGIE SULLIVAN: OK. What I've had it with...
FADEL: The political pop culture pod has millions of followers across platforms. And they've given voice to progressive women in parts of the country that feel like they're not seen - places like Oklahoma. The audience is drawn to the two women's say-anything style and willingness to go after the political elite. Jennifer Welch is now an author. She's out with a new book - "Not Today, Fascists." And I started by asking her about the not-so-subtle title that might cause some people to bristle. She says that's the point.
WELCH: I'm talking about Donald Trump and all of the obsequious men who put loyalty to this fragile, incompetent man. And it's also kind of an ode to my childhood a bit because I heard with all of my religious friends this phrase - not today, Satan - all the time growing up. And so when - I was writing the book for a while before we came up with the title, and it came to me. And I was like, I want to be aggressive. I want to call them fascists. I want to call this exactly what it is and call them out specifically by name.
FADEL: Now, there are a lot of people who will see that word and say, you're absolutely right. There are people who've studied fascism who've left the country to - saying this is the time that the United States is sliding in that direction. But there are a lot of people who will be turned off by the title, by the tone, see it as you labeling and disparaging the policies of Republicans writ large. What would you say to those people who say, well, why are you using this word, and does it invite division?
WELCH: This book is not written to placate or capitulate to fragile-egoed Republicans. It is to call them out directly in a provocative way. And there's no question this is fascism. I do no favors by placating to the fragile egos of people who don't like to be called what they are.
FADEL: Could you describe your own political evolution to the left and why you got so angry and are so angry with the mainstream of your own party?
WELCH: Yeah. So it's interesting because in Oklahoma, I was up against the red backdrop. I was, I thought, as liberal as could possibly be. But defeat does something to people. When you lose two political races to Donald Trump, that calls for a lot of introspection. What are the Democrats doing wrong? Why is our brand of politics not appealing to people? Why are people falling prey to this demagogue? And so I really started deep-diving and getting off of corporate news and consuming articles and podcasts from people that I very much respect. And I started evolving. And I think that's what we all want to do.
FADEL: I think you've talked about this in the past, where a lot of political commentators and people who weigh in on politics are on the coasts. And there are very few people like you.
WELCH: Yeah. So my politics were informed, first and foremost, by my mother. She was an unapologetic, very closeted atheist.
FADEL: Closeted atheist?
WELCH: Very closeted. It would have been easier to tell somebody you were gay in the '80s in the Bible Belt than you were an atheist.
FADEL: I'm curious if you think some of the things you say about Christianity might turn people off. I've spoken to a lot of very Christian scholars who warn of Christian nationalism and the chipping away of that wall between church and state. They're just as concerned as any secular person or non-Christian person. But also, historically, churches have been places where social justice movements are born, where the Civil Rights Movement thrived. So I'm curious how you sort of think about that.
WELCH: I would say to that, I come from a place where the form of Christianity that is in the Bible Belt is not the churches that I - now I live in New York. I live in New York City. And I walk past these churches now, and I see a Pride flag, I see a Black Lives Matter flag and I see a banner that says, refugees welcome here. And I think, God, if I would have grown up around churches like that, I wouldn't be such a biddy about all of this. I wouldn't be so cynical. It's so beautiful and so welcoming. And I think that for anything to really promote change, people that are within the Christian movement should be calling it out far louder and beating the drum far bigger than the atheist, former designer, podcaster Jennifer Welch.
FADEL: You talked about having a moral division, not a political division with Trump supporters. And that's why you can't build that bridge. And I just wonder - I mean, this is a country that, whatever happens, we all have to live in. So if there is such a moral division, how do you build for a future where everybody's here?
WELCH: Well, that's a very easy question for me to answer. So the bridge that I can offer for them are the policies that I've always fought for. And unlike MAGA, my desire is for even the people that I detest, that I loathe with every fiber in me right now - I want them to have equality. I want them to have higher wages. I want them to be able to afford a home. I want them to have paid sick leave. Lunch? I'm out. Partying with you? I'm out.
FADEL: Jennifer Welch. Her book is called "Not Today, Fascists." Thank you so much for speaking with me.
WELCH: Thank you, Leila.
FADEL: President Trump has repeatedly rejected the accusation that he's a fascist, going so far as to say in 2024 that he was, quote, "the opposite of a Nazi."
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