(SOUNDBITE OF DANNY ELFMAN'S "THE BATMAN THEME")
AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
The Dark Knight, the Caped Crusader, Batman - he's had many iterations over 87 years as a character, and the latest - "Absolute Batman" - shows us a younger Bruce Wayne, who's a hulking fighter, an intrepid detective, but not a mysterious tycoon or orphan. This new reimagining of the Batman has been a breakout success in the last two years for DC Comics.
Scott Snyder writes "Absolute Batman" and has written mainline "Batman" comics - "Swamp Thing" and the "Justice League," among many others. And Nick Dragotta draws "Absolute Batman." He's also drawn the "X-Men," "Captain America" and "Transformers," to name a few. They join us now from our bureau in New York City, and I am so excited. Thank you so much for being here.
SCOTT SNYDER: Thanks so much for having us. We're thrilled.
NICK DRAGOTTA: Thank you.
RASCOE: So how did you decide to place "Absolute Batman"2 at this point in Bruce Wayne's life? We'll start with you, Scott.
SNYDER: Well, it came from a moment a few years ago. It felt like there was this conversation in pop culture about how superheroes were exhausted and over. And there was sort of a malaise about them. It felt like they were just kind of overdone. And in comics, it felt like, you know, some of their best stories were still being told, and it's a place where they can be renewed.
And so we pitched this idea of an Absolute universe where the whole world will be born over again, and these heroes would have a chance to be rebuilt from the ground up, but this time in ways that might make them feel a little bit more urgent, a little bit more kind of dialed into this generation. And for them, you know, multigenerational billionaires aren't the coolest.
RASCOE: (Laughter).
SNYDER: Nick and I both have teenage kids. And so instead, making Joker the handsome, mysterious billionaire and Batman the sort of working-class hero felt like there was some energy there. And we never expected it to take off the way it has, but we're very, very grateful.
RASCOE: This Batman - he is visually striking and massive, right? He's still this, you know, street-level warrior, but he has really more savage weaponry, like the bat ears becoming knives or the bat symbol on his chest becoming the blade of an ax. And wow, does he really wield that axe? And he walks on his wings like stilts akin to how a bat walks. So as a creative duo, like, how do you talk out those kinds of changes, and how do you kind of bring that to life, Nick?
DRAGOTTA: Scott had the initial idea to go big. And when I tell you, I drew him big initially, I did, and Scott saw it, and he said, no, bigger. And I started, you know, going, Scott, we're getting into Hulk proportions now.
RASCOE: (Laughter).
DRAGOTTA: He's massive.
RASCOE: Yeah.
DRAGOTTA: And then I really fell in love with it and who this Bruce is. And then in the Absolute universe, we like to push it - all the dynamics, pushed more and more. So rather than the utility belt of old Batman, we have the utility suit. Every part of him can be used, and he's very much a DIY guy. He works in construction. He's a city engineer. You know, he's just using every aspect, and then we just look at bats and we look at all the different things a bat can do. But everything reflects the character.
RASCOE: Now, I've been reading this comic with my son, Reggie, and he has this question for you. Let's hear it.
REGGIE: Why did you decide to make the world's first poor Batman?
RASCOE: Now...
(LAUGHTER)
RASCOE: Now, he said poor Batman.
DRAGOTTA: Yes.
RASCOE: And just to build upon that question, wealth has been so central to the character, and it really justified all these insane gadgets that he uses. How do you keep that familiar feeling for the character while changing this kind of central part of his narrative?
SNYDER: Well, that's a great question from Reggie, I have to say.
(LAUGHTER)
SNYDER: You know, at core, Nick and I really tried to burn him down to what he's about. For me, growing up in New York, Batman felt real and immediate when he was going up against the things that I was afraid of as a kid. He made me brave 'cause that's ultimately what these characters exist to do, right?
And for this moment, it really feels like this generation is sort of coming up in a moment that feels more challenging, feels more frightening, feels more chaotic. And so we wanted Bruce to be more challenged, and it felt like taking away some of those advantages and having him struggle would only enhance his heroism because at the end of the day, like, what he really is at core is someone who faces a terrible trauma as a kid, like, the worst thing that can happen to you. And then he uses that as motivation, not to sort of become someone dark, but instead to vow that he'll make the world better and not let that happen to another kid. And so if you just take that, I mean, he's so adaptable. That's all it is. It's - and that's why people love to see him win, you know?
RASCOE: Yeah.
SNYDER: There's the saying, Batman always wins, but it's because he teaches us how to kind of overcome our worst trauma and then use it as motivation to be better.
RASCOE: Does it change his politics? I mean, for both of you, do you feel like this changes Batman's politics because he's not wealthy?
DRAGOTTA: I think it just makes it more relevant. The older Batman is a billionaire. Our Batman is very working class. And what I love about our book is he's constantly building and creating, be it for Batman or for Bruce. The billionaire Bruce is very philanthropic. Our Bruce is very on the ground. So, like, it's just - I think they both have the same mission.
SNYDER: Also what's fun is that, you know, Batman as a billionaire - the power fantasy is that you get all these cars and...
RASCOE: Yes.
SNYDER: ...Gadgets...
RASCOE: Yes.
SNYDER: ...And things. And as much as we like to say, anyone can be Batman or you can be Batman, really only Bruce Wayne can be Batman...
RASCOE: (Laughter).
SNYDER: ...In that world.
RASCOE: (Laughter) Yes, yeah.
SNYDER: But over here, the fun is, I think it has more of that kind of inclusive quality where it does feel like anyone can be Batman. And the lesson in the whole story is that Batman ultimately needs to be a collective.
RASCOE: Yeah.
SNYDER: He needs to be all of us, inspired to change things that feel entrenched and systemic.
RASCOE: Yeah, and he does have to rely on more people in this way. I have another question from my son, Reggie.
(LAUGHTER)
REGGIE: Why must he go through all the torment he does?
SNYDER: Well, I mean, we love beating him up.
RASCOE: Scott Snyder must really hate Batman because he just puts him through (laughter) so much.
SNYDER: I love Batman.
RASCOE: (Laughter).
SNYDER: No, I mean, you put him through it because he can take it. Ultimately, like, you can't really break these characters. You push them against the things that you're most afraid of in the world. That's why it was important to us, for example, to have him formed instead of, you know, through a mugging in an alley, through a mass shooting in this one. That was one of our deal-breakers with DC, was if we do the book, that has to be part of the origin because that's the world our kids grow up in.
And it doesn't mean the book has to reflect the real world in every way. Part of the fun of it is that it's completely outsized and exaggerated and full of comic book bombast and lunacy. So we want people to have a lot of fun with it. But beneath the surface, we just want it to feel relevant in the way that Bruce is going up against things that all of us, but especially young people, are afraid of and showing that they can get through it and be better on the other side and change things.
RASCOE: Fans have always had very strong opinions. They have really reacted positively to this iteration of Batman, but comic fans can be very tough critics. So how do creators like yourselves deal with those sorts of criticisms?
DRAGOTTA: I mean, personally, I don't care. To hear Reggie is enjoying the book pretty much tells me we're doing our job. But overall, I think we got to follow our own North Star.
SNYDER: I just like to pretend we're making fanfiction and nobody's reading it.
(LAUGHTER)
SNYDER: Like, Nick comes over, we go in our treehouse, and it's just a book that no one on Earth is reading, and that's it.
RASCOE: (Laughter).
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "BATMAN THEME")
THE RON HICKLIN SINGERS: (Singing) Batman.
RASCOE: That's Scott Snyder and Nick Dragotta. They make up the dynamic duo of "Absolute Batman." Issue No. 23 is out soon. Thanks so much for speaking with us today.
DRAGOTTA: Thank you.
SNYDER: It was such a pleasure. Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF NEAL HEFTI SONG, "BATMAN THEME") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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