DAVID BIANCULLI, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm David Bianculli. Tim Curry, the British actor who starred in the original stage and movie versions of "The Rocky Horror Show" in the 1970s, died Tuesday. He was 80 years old. In "Rocky Horror," Curry played flamboyant extraterrestrial mad scientist Frank-N-Furter, who believed in sexual freedom and fluid sexual identities.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW")
TIM CURRY: (As Dr. Frank-N-Furter) Come up to the lab and see what's on the slab. I see you shiver with antici-pation.
BIANCULLI: The film "The Rocky Horror Picture Show," based on the hit London stage musical became a cult hit, and in midnight movie showings, Tim Curry's aggressively outrageous starring role found a loyal new audience. Fifty years later, "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" still figures in some local midnight screenings around the country, and a revival of the original stage musical continues its Broadway run through February. And though it was Tim Curry's most famous role, it was by no means his only one. He also played Pennywise in the original ABC miniseries version of Stephen King's "It," an uptight professor in the TV series "Kinsey," co-starred in the movies "Annie," "Clue" and "The Shout," joined the Muppets as Long John Silver in "Muppet Treasure Island" and played King Arthur in the original Broadway production of Monty Python's "Spamalot." And he recorded several rock albums in the 1970s and scored one hit in England with "I Do The Rock," a song that was very much of its time, and its time was 1979.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "I DO THE ROCK")
CURRY: (Singing) John and Yoko farming beef, raising protein quota. Sometimes they make love and art inside the Dakota. Rodney's feeling sexy. Mick is really frightfully bold. Me, I do the only thing that stops me growing old. I do the Rock. I do the Rock Rock.
BIANCULLI: In addition to singing, Tim Curry also went into the recording studio as an actor, providing voices for such animated features as "The Rugrats Movie" and "The Wild Thornberrys." After he suffered a serious stroke in 2012, which confined him to a wheelchair, Curry relied on voice acting for the bulk of his roles the remainder of his career. Terry Gross spoke to Tim Curry in 2005, when he was about to star in the Broadway musical Monty Python's "Spamalot," playing King Arthur. The show was directed by Mike Nichols. Here's a song from the cast recording. This is a self-help spoof called "Find Your Grail."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "FIND YOUR GRAIL")
CURRY: (As King Arthur, singing) When your life seems to drift, when we all need a lift, trim your sail. You won't fail. Find your Grail. Find your Grail. Life is really up to you. You must choose what you pursue. Set your mind on what to find.
SARA RAMIREZ: (Singing) And there's nothing you can't do, you can't do.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
TERRY GROSS: How did you get the part of King Arthur in "Spamalot"?
CURRY: Sort of sideways, really, I guess. I've known Eric Idle a long time, one of the original Pythons, and he now lives in Los Angeles, as do I. And so we see each other quite a bit. And, in fact, the summer before last, we were hoping to do a film together which he had written and was going to direct, which was a kind of demolition of every Miramax movie ever made, called "The Remains Of The Piano." And that never quite happened because the money...
(LAUGHTER)
CURRY: It's a good title, isn't it?
GROSS: Very good. Very good.
CURRY: I was going to play the Reverend Whoopsie. And Robin Williams was going to play Vanessa Redgrave in "Howards End."
GROSS: (Laughter).
CURRY: I loved his lines, which were stuff like, you, I haven't met you before. You shall have the teacup when I go. No, no. No, you shall have the grand piano. Oh, no. No. You shall have the house. So that never happened, but he said, I think it looks like we are finally going to get to do the musical version of "Monty Python And The Holy Grail," and we're going to call it "Spamalot." And first of all, I thought that was just terribly funny. But I also thought, oh, Well, you know, I'll believe it when it happens.' And then suddenly Mike Nichols was directing it, and they put David Hyde Pierce and Hank Azaria and I and a couple of other people on a plane from California, and we came into New York. And we sat down and read it with a bunch of other people from New York, some of whom are in the play. And it just went, like, gangbusters, and I guess the next day I was going to be King Arthur.
GROSS: So "Spamalot" incorporates some classic Monty Python bits in it that I assume a lot of people in the audience probably know by heart. What kind of response do you get when you get to the classic parts?
CURRY: It's quite interesting because the audience always sort of contains some core of Monty Python fans who see stuff coming, you know, and react with great whoops of joy and then settle down to see it unfold. I mean, they're hugely welcoming, and then they really want to see it happen. I mean, happily, they're not talking along with it, because that would, you know, need a spanking.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: So...
CURRY: But they love it and they see it coming, and they are thrilled to see characters and sketches that they recognize.
GROSS: You knew the Monty Python material.
CURRY: Yes.
GROSS: And audience knows a lot of the Monty Python material.
CURRY: Yes.
GROSS: But do you know a lot of the early Nichols and May scripts?
CURRY: I do. I do. I was always a fan, and so it was sort of very interesting for me to work with him. And he has - first of all, every note that you ever get from Mike is preceded by, that was wonderful. That was wonderful. One small thing...
So you're given this enormous sort of sense of entitlement and then something tiny and completely accurate is lodged like a little sort of Navajo arrow in your brain. And his great note, I think, because I was playing it pretty broadly at the beginning, because so much of it is like something that we in England call pantomime and sort of is part of vaudeville really. And his first note and recurring note to me is, yes, that's great, you know. It's very funny. Now let's make it true. And I think that's his great gift to this material, is that he's given it a great big sort of beating Arthurian heart. And that's an extra dimension that you just sort of don't expect and, of course, also makes it so much more interesting to play.
BIANCULLI: Tim Curry speaking with Terry Gross in 2005. More after a break. This is FRESH AIR.
This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to Terry's 2005 interview with Tim Curry. The star of "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" died Tuesday at age 80. In "Rocky Horror," he played Frank-N-Furter, a mad scientist from another planet, self-described as a sweet transvestite from Transsexual, Transylvania. In this scene, he welcomes to his remote castle a stranded couple seeking help. They're played in this 1975 film by future stars Barry Bostwick as Brad and Susan Sarandon as Janet. Brad and Janet have entered the castle soaking wet, and Frank-N-Furter's assistants have stripped them down to their underclothes as Frank looks them over wickedly.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW")
CURRY: (As Dr. Frank-N-Furter) Magenta, Columbia, go and assist Riff Raff. I will entertain er...
BARRY BOSTWICK: (As Brad Majors) Brad Majors. This is my fiancee, Janet Vice.
SUSAN SARANDON: (As Janet Weiss) Weiss.
BOSTWICK: (As Brad Majors) Weiss?
SARANDON: (As Dr. Frank-N-Furter) Enchante.
BOSTWICK: (As Brad Majors) Well...
CURRY: (As Dr. Frank-N-Furter) How nice, and what charming underclothes you both have. But here, put these on. They'll make you feel less vulnerable. It's not often we receive visitors here, let alone offer them hospitality.
BOSTWICK: (As Brad Majors) Hospitality? All we wanted to do was to use your telephone, dammit, a reasonable request, which you've chosen to ignore.
SARANDON: (As Janet Weiss) Brad, don't be ungrateful.
BOSTWICK: (As Brad Majors) Ungrateful.
CURRY: (As Dr. Frank-N-Furter) How forceful you are, Brad. Such a perfect specimen of manhood, so dominant.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: You know, like so many other of your fans, I first saw you in "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" in the '70s, and when you see somebody in a movie for the first time, it's sometimes hard to tell how good they are. You don't know - is this all they can do? Do they do other things, too? Is this what they're really like, or, you know, how much are they acting? And so I saw you - I guess it was probably like the late '80s, in "Wiseguy," the TV series.
CURRY: Yes.
GROSS: And you played a kind of Phil Spector-ish, brilliant but crazy record producer.
CURRY: That's right.
GROSS: And a great, really terrific performance, and that's, I think, when I really got the picture, wow, he's really good at doing all kinds of things. So...
CURRY: That's so nice. I mean, it's sort of important for me, because, you know, that first performance that sort of introduced me to everybody was so out there and so...
GROSS: I'll say. Yeah.
CURRY: ...Kind of outrageous that, you know, I was a very quiet boy for a while, you know, just to make sure that people got it, that, you know, that wasn't necessarily who I was.
GROSS: Was that because of...
CURRY: It was my first movie, you know.
GROSS: That was your first movie?
CURRY: Yeah.
GROSS: How did you get the part?
CURRY: I got the part because I used to work a great deal at a theater in London called The Royal Court, and I guess they have a little theater upstairs which seats about 60 people, and I did Brecht there, and I did a sort of Rudyard Kipling show there. And I guess the next show, I did a dreadful musical, a Marxist musical called "Give The Gaffers Time To Love You" with a director who kept saying, Barry, the second act just simply isn't Marxist enough.
GROSS: (Laughter).
CURRY: And that, of course, never even opened to the critics, but the next show coming in was this other musical called "The Rocky Horror Show." And originally, I played Frank-N-Furter as though he was German. (Impersonating German accent) I was Dr. Frank-N-Furter, and everything was very interesting and stupid.
And then one day I heard a woman on a bus saying, do you have house in town or a house in the country? And I thought, yes, he should sound like the queen.
GROSS: (Laughter) Oh, that's great.
CURRY: So he should sound like the queen. So - but that's how it happened, and it just started in this tiny theater, you know, and it just took off like a sort of rocket.
GROSS: Did you like the kind of cheap horror films that it in part parodied?
CURRY: Oh, absolutely. I mean, Richard's brilliance really was just, you know - it was really like reaching up a hand into the zeitgeist and just grabbing, you know, '50s horror movies, Sandra Dee, comic books and '50s rock 'n' roll and just hurling them all together with, you know, some fishnet tights thrown in. And the fishnet tights really, you know, came from a brilliant costume designer called Sue Blane, who I'd worked with before, actually, in a wonderful theater in Scotland called the Glasgow Citizens Theatre, where we did a production of "The Maids" where I wore exactly that corset.
GROSS: The Jean Genet part?
CURRY: Yeah, the Jean Genet play. I played Solange, and we bought the corset for three pounds off a barrow in the market in Glasgow and wore it back to front.
GROSS: That's funny, you'd be wearing for, like, this transgressive playwright Genet...
CURRY: Well, absolutely.
GROSS: ...And then this kind of parody of everything, "Rocky Horror."
CURRY: Absolutely.
GROSS: Well, there's probably nothing that can get you into character quickly like black bikini briefs, fishnet stockings, the garter belt, the corset, the whole thing.
CURRY: Well, absolutely. And that was a fairly late development. I mean, I had no idea it was going to be like that until, you know...
GROSS: You didn't when you accepted the part?
CURRY: No, no, no, no. No. I thought I'd be in a white lab coat, you know.
GROSS: So how did the whole thing...
CURRY: It was a bit of a shock.
GROSS: So how did it all evolve then?
CURRY: Well, it evolved 'cause it was much funnier that way. And, I mean, I thought the great gag about, you know, the way that we all looked was - and I've always said this to anybody who's ever asked me about playing Frank-N-Furter if they were playing it, you know - to just never think about it as drag, 'cause it's not. It's just what people wear in Transylvania.
GROSS: (Laughter).
CURRY: I mean, that's just what everybody wears in Transylvania. So just get over it, you know? It's truck driver drag. It's not about someone going boop-oop-a-doop. It's just what they happen to wear.
GROSS: I think the thing I found most amazing about the whole phenomenon of "Rocky Horror" was watching, like, the 12-year-olds outside the theater parading around in their transvestite clothes.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: Because they were all - it was just, like, all these 12-year-olds outside the theater imitating you in your getup. And you had to just kind of ask yourself, what is going on here? What did the 12-year-olds make of it? I mean, are they going through some kind of gender thing, or do they just love the movie? Like, what is this about?
CURRY: I think it's all of the above, actually. I mean, I think, first of all, they loved the movie because it's daring. To pretty much everybody, it was daring at the time. Less daring now. To them, it's daring. And it's also, I think, you know, there are several reasons why it's endured the way that it has. It's a kind of rite of passage now, I think. And actually, first of all, it's a guaranteed weekend party to which you can go with or without a date and probably find one if you don't have one.
And it's also, I think, a chance for people to try on a few roles for size, you know, figure out - help them maybe figure out their own sexuality. I mean, I think that's probably taking it a little deeper than it needs to go, but I think it has had a useful purpose in that way. And I've certainly had some very interesting and moving mail from people who've said, you know, thanks (laughter) for helping me figure out who I was, you know, and that's very nice.
GROSS: Did you ever go to one of, like, the midnight screenings back in the '70s and watch the movie with the people who were reciting along? And when they would make a toast on screen, people would, like, throw toast, you know, at the screen.
CURRY: Yeah.
GROSS: And, you know, the whole bit. It became an incredibly participatory experience for the people who came to see it time and time again.
CURRY: I did go. I went a couple of times. Oddly enough, it started happening at the Waverly Theater.
GROSS: In Manhattan, in the Village.
CURRY: On Sixth Avenue in the Village. And, ironically, I was living a block behind it on Jones Street.
GROSS: Oh, you're kidding.
CURRY: So I would see on my way home all these people. And, you know, I got to know about it rather quickly because I was a neighbor.
GROSS: Wow.
CURRY: And finally, I went to see it. And in fact, I had to sort of call the theater because, you know, you could never get in. And I said, you know, I'm in it. And I'd really love to come and see it and get an eyeful. And the operator said, you're the third Tim Curry to call this week.
GROSS: (Laughter).
CURRY: So finally, I showed up. And they sort of believed me and took me in. And the word spread rather swiftly, and people were sort of coming up and touching me and running away and giggling. And it was a very, very peculiar experience. And then, finally, the usherette - I don't know what you call them, really; that's what they call them in England - came and sort of dragged me out of my seat and announced that I was an impostor and threw me out of the theater. Which is - (laughter).
GROSS: Wow.
CURRY: Which is quite funny, really. So I actually had...
GROSS: Did you protest?
CURRY: Well, I actually had my passport on me.
GROSS: (Laughter).
CURRY: And I pulled it out, and I said, still think I'm an impostor? And she said, oh, Mr. Curry, I'm so sorry. Please come back in. And I said, I wouldn't dream of coming back in.
(LAUGHTER)
CURRY: And I saw it once on the strip in LA because I was doing a gig there with my band when I was making records. And I took them up to the balcony to see it. And (laughter) I remember my drummer coming out and saying, we don't have to dress up like that, do we?
GROSS: (Laughter).
CURRY: And I said, no, you really don't. And I shan't be either. But it was odd. I mean, it's a very peculiar experience. I mean, the first person to actually shout back in the theater was David Bowie's first wife, Angie.
GROSS: Really?
CURRY: I remember when Bowie came. And he brought this huge entourage. And she was with him. And when Richard O'Brien was about to kill me, she shouted, no, no, don't do it. And so I guess she was one of the first people to sort of do that. And Marc Shaiman, who's the sort of famous composer now, was one of the first who actually talked back in the Waverly. I think he began it here in New York. And now, of course, it's everywhere.
BIANCULLI: Tim Curry speaking to Terry Gross in 2005. The actor died Tuesday at age 80. More of their conversation after a break. And we'll also revisit an interview with actress Rhea Seehorn, who's nominated for an Emmy for her starring role in the TV series "Pluribus." I'm David Bianculli, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SWEET TRANSVESTITE")
CURRY: (As Frank-N-Furter, singing) How do you do? I see you've met my faithful handyman. He's just a little brought down because when you knocked, he thought you were the candy man. Don't get strung out by the way I look. Don't judge a book by its cover. I'm not much of a man by the light of day, but by night, I'm one hell of a lover. I'm just a sweet transvestite from Transexual, Transylvania. Let me show you around, maybe play you a sound. You look like you're both pretty groovy. Or if you want something visual that's not too abysmal, we could take in an old Steve Reeves movie.
BOSTWICK: (As Brad Majors) I'm glad we caught you at home. Could we use your phone?
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
BIANCULLI: This is FRESH AIR. I'm TV critic David Bianculli. Tim Curry, star of "The Rocky Horror Picture Show," died Tuesday. He was 80 years old. We're remembering him by listening back to a conversation Terry had with him in 2005.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: Now, your father was a chaplain in the British navy.
CURRY: Yes.
GROSS: What did your parents think of your role in "Rocky Horror"?
CURRY: Well, he, alas, was dead, 'cause he died when I was 12.
GROSS: Oh.
CURRY: So he wasn't even aware that I was an actor even. I think my mother - who, you know, is really, like, one of those sort of "Monty Python" ladies, you know, (impersonating his mother) oh, I can't imagine what's going on, you know, who always had a hat. And since my first job in the theater was "Hair" and, you know...
GROSS: And you were probably naked in that, right?
CURRY: ...And I did appear naked in it, I think, you know, it was a relief to her that I actually was wearing clothes of any kind in "The Rocky Horror Show."
GROSS: At least you were covered by a corset and garters (laughter).
CURRY: She was happily unaware that part of the character, particularly of Frank-N-Furter at his most gracious, was based on her.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: In what way?
CURRY: Well, it was sort of her telephone voice, you know. (Impersonating his mother) Do you have any tattoos, Brad? My sister, when she saw it, fell on the floor and said, you know, does she know? and I said, no, she has absolutely no idea, and please don't tell her. She thought it was very, very amusing and brought all her friends. So she was a pretty hip lady, my mother, and she got it, I mean, you know, astonishingly. She loved it.
GROSS: That's really funny.
CURRY: She didn't like it as much as "The Pirates Of Penzance," which I did at Drury Lane, because the Queen Mother came to that and that, you know, was the total seal of approval of my career.
GROSS: And I would bet that the Queen Mother did not go to "Hair" or "Rocky Horror."
CURRY: I didn't think she went to either. Although, Princess Margaret did come to "Rocky Horror" and had a wonderful time.
GROSS: Really?
CURRY: And so did prince - and Princess Diana actually requested to meet me because she was such a "Rocky Horror" fan.
GROSS: So did you ever meet Princess Diana?
CURRY: I did actually meet Princess Diana. We - I was doing a production of "Love For Love," and it was taken to Vienna for British Week, and we played at the Burgtheater. And Prince Charles and Princess Diana were the guests of honor, and - which was when she said that she very much wanted to meet me, and so they sort of put me at the end of the receiving line. And Prince Charles said, (impersonating Prince Charles) I think I've seen you on television. Haven't I seen you on television? I said, yes, actually, you've seen me on television. (impersonating Prince Charles) Yes, I'd thought I'd seen you on television. But Diana said, you were in "The Rocky Horror Show." And I said, yes, ma'am, I was. I was, but I'm sure that you haven't seen it. She said, oh, yes. It quite completed my education.
GROSS: (Laughter).
CURRY: She was a very funny girl, and a very beautiful one and sort of the - a very wicked smile came with that sentence. She was great fun, and the world is poorer without her.
GROSS: You've done a lot of animated films and television series. How did that become such a central part of your work?
CURRY: Well, the animation thing happened kind of by accident. A very nice man called Gordon Hunt, who's the father of Helen Hunt, the actress, and a wonderful director, was directing animated cartoons at Hanna-Barbera. And they were doing a series of Bible stories, and he wanted me to play the snake. So I played the snake and had a lot of fun, and I said, look, you know, when the tour's over, I'm actually going to move to LA, and I'd love to do some more of this. And will you, you know, at least audition me for things when you have them?
And he did. He was very faithful. And he would just say, you know, come in and read, and I'd come in and read. And I started doing a lot of animation and loving it. And the great thing about it - I mean, apart from just the fun of it, is that, you know, if you're in Los Angeles, you know, waiting for movies, it can get very dull. And you can just, you know, show up to an animation studio and you don't have to look good, you don't have to be shaved or anything, and - you know, and you get to play all these people that you'd never, ever get to play in real life.
GROSS: So what are some of the voices you've done for these animations?
CURRY: Oh, all sorts of things. I did - (as Captain Hook) I did Captain Hook for "Peter Pan & The Pirates." I did (as Nigel Thornberry) Nigel Thornberry for "The Wild Thornberrys." And Nigel Thornberry is sort of an eccentric English explorer. I do Professor Calamitous in a show called "Jimmy Neutron," who's a terrible rip-off of Truman Capote basically. (As Professor Calamitous) He talks like that. And he's very tiny.
GROSS: Now, you grew up in England. Your father was a chaplain in the navy.
CURRY: Yeah.
GROSS: Were you religious when you were growing up?
CURRY: Rather not, as preachers' kids tend not to be, you know? I mean, my father was pretty chill about all of that. I mean, he wasn't - Methodism in England is a lot more relaxed than it is in the States. And it's not as forbidding or as chilly. And he was a very liberal and a very funny man. But, you know, I did willy-nilly show up, you know, to Sunday school morning and afternoon and went to hear him preach when he was onshore because he was quite often at sea. And I spent my childhood in sort of various sort of naval bases until - he died when I was quite young, when I was 12, and we moved to south London, and I went to boarding school.
GROSS: Did you have to go to church, and did you sing a lot in church?
CURRY: Well, that was the great bonus because the Methodist Church has a remarkable body of hymns, largely - a great number of them by Charles Wesley. And so I sang in church from about - I don't know - 6 or 7, and I was - you know, I was a real boy soprano for - you know, until my voice changed.
GROSS: It changed a lot, didn't it?
CURRY: It did change quite a whole lot. I was very lucky because there was - I had a great music teacher who sent away to Westminster Choral School for exercises when my voice started breaking because, you know, so often, people with wonderful soprano voices end up with no mature singing voices at all. And I managed to make that transition, happily.
And it's funny. When I was doing - I don't know whether this is interesting. When we were doing "Pirates Of Penzance" and I had my first singing lessons, really, the lady who was doing them said, you know, we must work on your falsetto and get your range up. And I said, I don't have a falsetto, and she said, oh, nonsense. Everyone has a falsetto. And I said, no, I really don't. And she made me find one. And she suddenly had this revelation one day and she said, were you a boy soprano? And I said, yes, I was. And she says, you're in mourning for that sound, aren't you? And I realized that I was. I mean, it is of great sadness not to be able to make that extraordinary pure sound that you do make as a boy soprano. And I guess I just...
GROSS: That's actually really interesting. Yeah.
CURRY: It is. It's fascinating, isn't it? I think I just, you know, cut off that alley, as it were.
GROSS: But you kept singing, didn't you?
CURRY: I kept singing, yes. Absolutely.
GROSS: So did you go to, like, the loud, gruff rock band kind of singing afterwards?
CURRY: Well, no, actually. I mean, you know, at 17 or 18, I was singing lieder and, you know, I was singing sort of classical music, really. But then I guess, you know, The Beatles happened, and it was all over.
GROSS: So what kind...
CURRY: That and Marlboro, you know?
GROSS: Marlboro cigarettes? Oh.
CURRY: It's funny, because I actually - yes. I actually quit smoking a year ago, and it was fascinating because within three weeks, my voice went back up a tone and a half, and I remembered - and I heard the voice that I remembered myself singing in when I was 19 or 20.
It's very odd and it's a great warning to anyone to stay away from the demon tobacco, stupid drug that it is.
GROSS: Did you always know that you had that ability to mimic?
CURRY: Yes, I think you know you have it or you don't. Hank, who - Azaria, who is...
GROSS: Hank Azaria.
CURRY: ...In this show, is an absolutely dazzling mimic - can do anybody. You sort of have an ear or you don't, I think. And I think, you know, a lot of it has to do with amusing other children when you're young and, you know, getting out of being hit.
GROSS: Right.
CURRY: (Laughter).
GROSS: Was that effective for you?
CURRY: I think it's effective for all childhood comedians. I think it's, you know, the root of a great deal of comedy.
BIANCULLI: Tim Curry speaking to Terry Gross in 2005. The star of "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" died Tuesday. He was 80 years old. After a break, the Emmy Awards are coming up next month. We'll revisit an interview with Rhea Seehorn, who is nominated for her starring role in the new Vince Gilligan series "Pluribus." This is FRESH AIR. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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