DAVE DAVIES, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Dave Davies. The actress Eva Marie Saint, best known for two very different roles in "On The Waterfront" and "North By Northwest," died last week. She was 102 years old. She won an Academy Award in 1955 for her movie debut in "On The Waterfront," playing the shy, parochial school-educated young woman opposite longshoreman Marlon Brando. Here they are on a first date.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "ON THE WATERFRONT")
MARLON BRANDO: (As Terry Malloy) What do you really care, am I right?
EVA MARIE SAINT: (As Edie Doyle) Shouldn't everybody care about everybody else?
BRANDO: (As Terry Malloy) Oh, what a fruitcake you are.
SAINT: (As Edie Doyle) I mean, isn't everybody a part of everybody else?
BRANDO: (As Terry Malloy) And you really believe that drool?
SAINT: (As Edie Doyle) Yes, I do.
DAVIES: She co-starred with Cary Grant in the Hitchcock thriller "North By Northwest," playing a femme fatale.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "NORTH BY NORTHWEST")
SAINT: (As Eve Kendall) I'm a big girl.
CARY GRANT: (As Roger Thornhill) Yeah, and in all the right places, too.
DAVIES: Eva Marie Saint studied at The Actors Studio. Early in her career, she chose to focus on raising her two children with her husband, TV director Jeffrey Hayden. They were married 65 years, until his death in 2016. She appeared in the film dramas "A Hatful Of Rain," "Raintree" (ph) opposite Montgomery Clift, "Exodus," alongside Paul Newman, and "All Fall Down" with Warren Beatty.
In the film "Loving," she played the wife of George Segal, who is about to run away with another woman. Saint's character wants him to buy a house, but he tells her he considers it a 30-year trap. Here they are in a car in the rain talking.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "LOVING")
SAINT: (As Selma Wilson) And I'm a trap, and the kids are traps.
GEORGE SEGAL: (As Brooks Wilson) All right.
SAINT: (As Selma Wilson) Is that what you meant?
SEGAL: (As Brooks Wilson) All right. Let's cut it off right now.
SAINT: (As Selma Wilson) Look, I don't want to be thought of as a trap. Can you understand that? I mean, if you're so damned unhappy, why don't you just pack up and leave? I'm not stopping you. And who in the hell do you think you are anyway?
SEGAL: (As Brooks Wilson) Look, I don't know...
DAVIES: Film critic Pauline Kael wrote that in that film, Saint gave, quote, "a stunning performance in what might have been a cliche role."
Eva Marie Saint took a comic turn in the 1966 Cold War farce "The Russians Are Coming The Russians Are Coming." Set in a small New England shore town, the all-star comedy cast included Carl Reiner as her husband and Alan Arkin as the Soviet lieutenant whose submarine has run aground. The town thinks it's been invaded and the U.S. military is on the way. But then one of the Soviet crew saves the life of a local boy, and the town decides to help the Soviets get away. Eva Marie Saint comes up with an idea.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING")
SAINT: (As Elspeth Whittaker) We could give him an escort. I mean, we could use all the little boats out in the harbor - a convoy.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTORS: (As characters) Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #1: (As character) An escort.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #2: (As character) Take him out to the harbor.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #1: (As character) Could we do that, Link?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #3: (As character) Go out with them. Take them out of the harbor.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #4: (As character) Let's go back to the dog tank.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #5: (As character) Can we help him get away, Dad? Can we?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #6: (As character) Anybody who wants to go with him, I ain't going to stop them.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #7: (As character) What?
(CHEERING)
DAVIES: In the late 1980s, Saint played Cybill Shepherd's mother in the comedy-drama series "Moonlighting," and she won an Emmy for her performance on the 1990 TV miniseries "People Like Us." Terry Gross spoke to Eva Marie Saint in 2000. Terry asked her how she got the part in her first film, "On The Waterfront."
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
SAINT: At one point, I did "Trip To Bountiful," the Horton Foote play. First, it was a television. Then he wrote - rewrote it as a play with Lillian Gish. And Kazan saw me in that part. Martin Jurow, my agent, sent Kazan to see me in that, and he saw it and thought of me as the young, virginal blonde in "On The Waterfront."
And I didn't read for it. I improvised with Marlon Brando. And it was an interesting improvisation because I - to this day, I don't know what he told Marlon, but he did tell me that I was at home, and a young man was coming to visit my sister, who was not at home. So my job was to keep him out of that house. Don't let him in the door. Well, I don't know what happened, but he got - he went in the door. He came in the living room. We were dancing. We were laughing. I was crying. He was taking my skirt and (vocalizing) whipping it around, and it - and the sparks flew. And Kazan saw that. And suddenly I was in "On The Waterfront."
TERRY GROSS: Were you used to improvising?
SAINT: Oh, yes. I was from The Actors Studio. I'd been studying there. I was there about seven years and - all total. And I had seen Marlon there, but I'd never worked with him. I actually worked with Lee Strasberg, and, of course, Kazan was there, too.
GROSS: Had you seen Brando in anything before starring with him?
SAINT: Oh. Yes. I'd seen his movies. And I'm never in awe of another actor because it's all the same business. Some actors are fine actors. Some not-quite-fine actors, good actors. I'm never in awe of anyone in our profession. I'm in awe of musicians or painters. But I was impressed (laughter). And he was adorable. And he was a prince. And he knew it was my first film. It was very cold in Hoboken...
GROSS: That's where you shot it?
SAINT: ...On the - yeah - excuse me - on the waterfront. Yeah, in Hoboken on the water - on the waterfront right there. And it was very cold. And he was always giving me a jacket to put over my shoulders. And I was skiing at the time. So underneath my virginal navy-blue dress, I had red long johns on. So when morale was low, I would start - I threw up my dress and started doing the cancan for all the longshoremen.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: It would be very out of character...
SAINT: Yeah. Well, yeah (laughter).
GROSS: ...For your character in the movie.
SAINT: True. I'm glad - I don't think Kazan saw me 'cause he liked everyone to stay in character.
GROSS: Oh, that's funny.
SAINT: But that got a few laughs. But he was very, very kind, Marlon. We rehearsed constantly, which is what you do on a Kazan film.
GROSS: Right. Now, in the movie, you have this, like, radiant, pure beauty, but in most of the scenes you're wearing real shmattes. You're wearing this big, drab woolen coat and a kerchief around your head and...
SAINT: I still have that kerchief.
GROSS: Do you really?
SAINT: I always save one - I should put it on eBay, right? No, siree.
(LAUGHTER)
SAINT: I usually have one thing from each film, and I have it in a little cellophane bag with a photo of me and Marlon. And there I have the kerchief. I'm holding the kerchief. And actually, it was my kerchief. And you know what it was, is it's little squares of Amish carriage - little dark print of a Amish carriage, and it's repeated through the whole little scarf.
GROSS: Now, in this scene from "On The Waterfront," you've decided not to see the Brando character anymore. But he's knocking on your door. And you're telling him to stay away. Then you lock the door and chain the door. He breaks into your apartment and finds you in bed wearing this white slip. Let's hear that scene.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "ON THE WATERFRONT")
BRANDO: (As Terry Malloy) Edie.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOOR KNOCKING)
BRANDO: (As Terry Malloy) Edie.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOOR KNOCKING)
SAINT: (As Edie Doyle) Stay away from me.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOOR KNOCKING)
BRANDO: (As Terry Malloy) Edie.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOOR KNOCKING)
BRANDO: (As Terry Malloy) Come on, please, open the door, please.
SAINT: (As Edie Doyle) Stop it.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOOR BREAKING)
SAINT: (As Edie Doyle) I want you to stay away from me.
BRANDO: (As Terry Malloy) I know what you want me to do, but I ain't going to do it, so forget it.
SAINT: (As Edie Doyle) I don't want you to do anything. You let your conscience tell you what to do.
BRANDO: (As Terry Malloy) Shut up about that conscience. That's all I've been hearing.
SAINT: (As Edie Doyle) I never mentioned a word before. You just stay away from me.
BRANDO: (As Terry Malloy) Edie. Edie, you love me. I want you to say...
SAINT: (As Edie Doyle) Didn't say I didn't love you. I said stay away from me.
BRANDO: (As Terry Malloy) I want you to say it to me.
SAINT: (As Edie Doyle) Stay away from me.
(SOUNDBITE OF HOUSE CREAKING)
GROSS: And that silence and then the little squeaking is them kissing passionately...
(LAUGHTER)
SAINT: Yeah.
GROSS: ...After she's attempted, in vain, to fight him off and then then gives in.
SAINT: Yeah.
GROSS: It's really quite a moment in the film. I mean, you look like you're almost about to faint with being totally overcome by this physical feeling that's very new to you, being in his arms. Let's talk about that scene. How was that kiss staged?
SAINT: How was the kiss staged? Well, we were struggling. We were struggling, and I was hitting his back. And I'm sure it was Kazan who said just drop that arm at that point. And I did.
GROSS: To show that you were giving in.
SAINT: Yes, that I was giving in.
GROSS: That you were kind of succumbing to your feelings.
SAINT: You know, when you just hear it, it's almost like two animals, isn't it? He was very, Marlon, very, very strong in that. And she dropped her conscience, didn't she? He overcame her. And yet she had these strong feelings. And he broke through for both of them. And, you know, she really did love him. I had trouble, actually, with that scene because I was in a slip. And in those days, I was very modest. And I felt exposed. I'd never been in a slip on screen and on television. And the kiss and all of that, it was pretty physical. And I remember just having trouble.
And Kazan came up to me. And he just whispered the name of my husband. He just said, Jeffrey. Well, I'm still married to Jeffrey. It's almost 50 years. And do you know it worked? I mean, that was it. I mean, another director might've struggled with whatever. But he just - one word. And no one heard it. Marlon didn't hear it. No one heard it. And that's how he worked. And somehow, I just knew that he knew I would relax, because he had met my husband, if I thought of Jeffrey. And somehow, when he whispered that, I just relaxed and enjoyed it.
GROSS: There's a scene in this where he's been called downstairs by some of the guys who are out to kill him. And you've chased after him, calling his name. And you find him in this narrow alley. And just as you find him and you're running down this alley to meet up with him, a big truck that's as wide as the alley is coming after him and therefore coming after you, too.
And there's no way you can be in the street without getting hit by this truck. So he breaks into a building. And you both rush in, narrowly averting this truck. It's such a beautifully lit scene. You're kind of, like, in the headlights of the truck, illuminated by it, running for your lives. Were you aware of the lighting when that shot was being made?
SAINT: You're never aware of the lighting. But it's interesting because when I did see it, it's almost like the hair has a halo...
GROSS: Yeah.
SAINT: ...As I remember. It was a very scary scene because it was wet. I had no idea that truck was going to be as close as it was in the scene. There was a place where we had to get out of the way and Marlon was supposed to open the door. The door wouldn't open. He actually broke that glass. And he actually cut his hand a little bit. The designated door was not unlocked or was jammed or something. So Marlon Brando is that kind of actor. He just, (shushing), and he broke the glass, and we got inside just in time.
GROSS: I guess you didn't have to do that scene again.
SAINT: No (laughter), no.
GROSS: You won an Oscar for your role in "On The Waterfront." And I think four days after winning the Oscar, you gave birth to a son.
SAINT: Two days.
GROSS: Two days.
SAINT: (Laughter) Better story, right? Two days. Yeah.
GROSS: So those are two big changes in your life happening just about simultaneously. I think, you know, for most people, when they get the Academy Award, they want to be at their most glamorous. And you were at your absolute most pregnant. I'm not sure if you were even able to go to the award ceremony.
SAINT: Oh, yes, I was sitting there with Jeffrey. And it was in New York. Now it's all in California. But at that time, the New York contingency and the Hollywood contingency. And there was a little jealousy between Hollywood and New York. So we really didn't think there was much of a chance for "Waterfront," black-and-white, made in New York. But we went. And we were all there. And some of the people started winning Oscars.
And my dear husband said, now, honey, if they call your name, I want you to sit here and count to 10 and then go up. Well, I heard my name. And I felt his hand on my thigh, pressing my thigh. And I'm smiling and smiling, and I'm really counting to 10. And then I walked up. I didn't rush up. I walked up and accepted the Oscar and said something like, I'm so excited, I may have the baby right here. And, of course, I had two days later.
DAVIES: Eva Marie Saint speaking with Terry Gross in 2000. We'll hear more of their conversation after this short break. This is FRESH AIR.
This is FRESH AIR, and we're remembering actor Eva Marie Saint, who died last week at the age of 102. Terry spoke to her in the year 2000.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: Let's talk about a movie that you made five years after "On The Waterfront," "North By Northwest," which starred you and Cary Grant. And you play the opposite kind of woman in this, as you - from what you played in "On The Waterfront." In this, you're a very glamorous, beautiful spy working undercover, and it's your job both to seduce Cary Grant and to seduce his nemesis. Why don't we start with a scene from the movie? Cary Grant is on the run. He's been mistakenly accused of being a murderer. He's hiding out on a train. He's seated next to you in the dining car, and he doesn't know that you're a spy, and he doesn't know that you know that he isn't who he pretends to be. So...
SAINT: It's complicated, isn't it?
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: Here's the Scene.
SAINT: (Laughter).
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "NORTH BY NORTHWEST")
GRANT: (As Roger Thornhill) Think how lucky I am to have been seated here.
SAINT: (As Eve Kendall) Well, luck had nothing to do with it.
GRANT: (As Roger Thornhill) Fate?
SAINT: (As Eve Kendall) I tipped the steward $5 to seat you here if you should come in.
GRANT: (As Roger Thornhill) Is that a proposition?
SAINT: (As Eve Kendall) I never discuss love on an empty stomach.
GRANT: (As Roger Thornhill) You've already eaten.
SAINT: (As Eve Kendall) But you haven't.
GRANT: (As Roger Thornhill) Don't you think it's time we were introduced?
SAINT: (As Eve Kendall) I'm Eve Kendall. I'm 26 and unmarried. Now you know everything.
GRANT: (As Roger Thornhill) Tell me, what do you do besides lure men to their doom on the 20th Century Limited?
SAINT: (As Eve Kendall) I'm an industrial designer.
GRANT: (As Roger Thornhill) Jack Phillips, Western sales manager for Kingby Electronics.
SAINT: (As Eve Kendall) No, you're not. You're Roger Thornhill of Madison Avenue, and you're wanted for murder on every front page in America. Don't be so modest.
GRANT: (As Roger Thornhill) Oops.
SAINT: (As Eve Kendall) Oh, don't worry. I won't say a word.
GRANT: (As Roger Thornhill) How come?
SAINT: (As Eve Kendall) I told you. It's a nice face.
GRANT: (As Roger Thornhill) Is that the only reason?
SAINT: (As Eve Kendall) It's going to be a long night.
GRANT: (As Roger Thornhill) True.
SAINT: (As Eve Kendall) And I don't particularly like the book I've started.
GRANT: (As Roger Thornhill) Ah.
SAINT: (As Eve Kendall) You know what I mean?
GRANT: (As Roger Thornhill) Oh, let me think. Yes, I know exactly what you mean.
GROSS: Even Marie Saint, how did Hitchcock think of you for this very seductive role when you were best known for playing a woman who was very chased and plain and - well, chased and beautiful, but (laughter) shy, you know, in "On The Waterfront"?
SAINT: I don't know. I'm glad that he did. I felt very comfortable playing the role. His set was such that everyone who was on the set, you just had the feeling of such confidence because he saw you and he didn't see anyone else. And, right, right, you can do this. Sure, you're right. You're the sexy spy lady. He didn't give much direction, very different from Kazan. He gave external direction. Things like lower your voice. Don't use your hands. 'Cause I sort of use my hands a lot when I talk. And look directly into Cary Grant's eyes at all times, which was not difficult.
GROSS: (Laughter).
SAINT: But that - but those were the things and the clothes. Oh, he didn't like the clothes that were designed for me, so he took me to New York, and we went to Bergdorf Goodman, and he said, anything you want. I used to tease him. I said, you were the only sugar daddy I ever had in my life. I had none before or none after. That afternoon, I felt like I had a sugar daddy. (Impersonating Elia Kazan) Whatever you want, Eva Marie. And so I took the black dress with the red roses. Remember that? I love that and some other things.
GROSS: Let's talk about the Mount Rushmore scene, where you and Cary Grant are escaping from the people who are out to get you, and you're scaling Mount Rushmore or what I imagine was a sculpture version, a miniature...
SAINT: Exactly. Yeah.
GROSS: ...Version of Mount Rushmore. What were you actually climbing on?
SAINT: We were climbing, by the way, two weeks after I gave birth.
GROSS: Oh, you're kidding?
SAINT: Climbing Mount - no, no, no. Well, at that time, people didn't gain - the doctors didn't want women to gain more than 21 pounds. So once you have your 9-pound baby, there's not much left. But that was at MGM in the studio, and it was very, very high, and, you know, it was made of artificial material to make it look like Mount Rushmore. And it was high. I know - listen, an actor who had trouble with heights would have had a difficult time. But I was pretty athletic in high school and college. And so I - and I ski and all that. So I was in good shape, even though I had a baby to climb that darn mountain. And I didn't have any fears.
But once we started climbing and I happened to look down and I saw that the prop man was putting all these mattresses around the perimeter the - of Mount Rushmore and I thought, oh, my God. That's right. We could actually fall, couldn't we? And I remember at one point taking off my heels. As prepared as Hitchcock was, he didn't say, now, Eva, once you get started, you take off those heels. Well, sure enough, I finally took off those heels after I broke a heel on one of the shoes.
GROSS: But you're climbing in your heels for part of it, aren't you?
SAINT: I know. For a lot of it, yeah.
GROSS: Yeah.
SAINT: And Cary Grant was older, and thought, well, if he can do it, I can do it (laughter). But he - someone pointed out at one point I was really ahead of him. I was pulling him, or at least I was ahead.
GROSS: There's this scene where you've kind of fallen off a ledge of the monument, and you're dangling off the edge of the monument. The only thing you have to hold onto is Cary Grant's hand. But he's losing his grip, and you're in danger of just...
SAINT: (Laughter).
GROSS: ...Falling and falling. What was beneath you at that time, the mattresses?
SAINT: Yes. And something to - I was just - you know, we won't tell everybody, but just a few feet off a box or something. But at one point, I did - I actually did slip further than I was supposed to because the man who was supposed to catch me was looking the other way. So I slipped about three feet more than I should, and I still have a tiny scar on my left elbow. And if you notice in the movie, I actually rub my elbow, and I decided in the actor's studio, I mean, it hurts. It really hurts. I don't want to stop filming. I don't want to yell cut. The actor never does that. And I just used it. And there I am on the scene really rubbing my elbow, which hurt a good deal.
(SOUNDBITE OF LONDON PHILHARMONIC ORCHESTRA & BERNARD HERRMANN'S "NORTH BY NORTHWEST")
DAVIES: Eva Marie Saint speaking with Terry Gross in 2000. Saint died last week at the age of 102. We'll hear more after a break, and we'll hear some of Terry's interview with the writer Anne Rice. It's the 50th anniversary of her novel, "Interview With The Vampire." And Justin Chang reviews the new documentary, "You Can See Everything," about disgraced entrepreneur Elizabeth Holmes.
I'm Dave Davies, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF LONDON PHILHARMONIC ORCHESTRA & BERNARD HERRMANN'S "NORTH BY NORTHWEST")
DAVIES: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Dave Davies. Let's get back to Terry's 2000 interview with Eva Marie Saint, who died last week at the age of 102. She's best known for her two early films "On The Waterfront" and "North By Northwest."
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: You were born in Newark and, I think, grew up in upstate New York?
SAINT: I grew up in Albany, New York.
GROSS: And what did your parents do for a living when you were young?
SAINT: My mother had been a schoolteacher in Vineland, New Jersey. She had been a one-room schoolteacher. And my dad was with BFGoodrich Tire and Rubber Company. So no one in our business - in our family had ever been in the business. My sister was a research chemist for DuPont. And I was studying to be a teacher and then changed my major in college and went into the theater.
GROSS: What was your earlier exposure to acting?
SAINT: My early - it was in Bowling Green State University, where someone dared me to try out for a play, and I did. And there was just something enlightening about that whole experience working with other actors. I'd done some practice teaching, and I was really going to be a teacher, like my mom. But there was something exciting about it, and, then I went into another - did another play, did another play.
And then, one summer, my sophomore year, I wrote to my drama professor and said, I'm thinking of changing from education to liberal arts. And what do you think would be the possibilities for me? And he wrote me a beautiful letter about the possibilities in New York at the time - live television, radio, the theater was flourishing. And he knew my background. And he said, the main thing is to be able to take rejection. I have a feeling you can and it was a beautiful letter that I felt was encouraging because that's what I wanted to do. I might have read it differently if I really wanted to teach. And then I went to my parents and told them, and they said, whatever you want to do, honey, just do your best, which was what they always said to my sister and myself. And they were wonderful about it. I probably wouldn't be talking to you, Terry, if they had said, what are you talking about? Get a job. Get a job with a salary check every week, for God's sake. But they didn't, so I'll be forever grateful.
GROSS: Well, you know, you were told that what you needed to do was, you know, be able to take rejection. Were you able to take that?
SAINT: Yes. And it happened. It's kind of a long story. I'll try to make it short. But when I was in "Mr. Roberts," that was the first play I ever tried out for, got the role, the only woman in the whole show. And I actually played somebody else who was too tough. I got the role. We were out of town. Josh Logan, the director, came to me after a few performances out of town and said, Eva Marie, we think we have a hit. We're a little nervous with you because this is your first show. So we would like to keep you as under study to Jocelyn Brando, who was Marlon's sister. It all gets very incestuous, doesn't it? But I did say, Mr. Logan, I'll take the understudy. And I went down in my dressing room and cried my eyes out, and everybody came in one by one.
(SOUNDBITE OF KNOCKING)
SAINT: Eva Marie, may we come in? And they came in one by one, including Hank Fonda, saying, you know, it's a godsend that you're taking this at such a young age because we've all had rejection. But the fact that you're very young, it'll mean something, and nothing will be this worse, so thank - well, it wasn't very comforting to me.
But that night on the subway between - I was living with my parents at the time in Jackson Heights - and I was thinking, I never want to feel this way again. I never want to be so destroyed. I came from a loving family. No one had ever rejected me in this way. So by the time I get home, I'm going to decide whether I want to stay in this business and - or be a teacher. And if I stay in the business, if I make the decision, I'll never ever allow myself to feel this way again. By the time I got home, I decided I was going to try to continue acting, studying and whatever happened, wherever I was rejected, when and where, I would never feel this way again. And the feeling this way again meant from my neck down, my heart, my soul. From my neck up, OK. You're disappointed. You're upset from your neck up, but never, never in - your soul will never be crushed again or your heart. And it never has been, I have to say, in all honesty. So those guys were right in "Mr. Roberts," so that was a big lesson - big, big important lesson in my life.
DAVIES: Eva Marie Saint speaking with Terry Gross in 2000. The actress died last week at the age of 102. Here's a moment from the Oscars ceremony in 1955, when she received the best actress Oscar, for her role in "On The Waterfront." She was very pregnant with her first child and would give birth two days later.
(SOUNDBITE OF 27TH ACADEMY AWARDS)
SAINT: I may have the baby right here.
(LAUGHTER)
SAINT: But I would love to thank Elia Kazan, Sam Spiegel, Marlon Brando, Karl Malden, Boris Kaufman, all the longshoremen. Thank you.
DAVIES: Coming up, we listen to some of Terry's 1990 interview with writer Anne Rice. This year marks the 50th anniversary of her debut novel "Interview With The Vampire." This is FRESH AIR. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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